Ok, I'm a moron ! Second opinion would help.

[Michael B.]

Sorry for the long post.

After thinking I'd been supremely careful putting on every part and with the engine coming in next week I just noticed it's possible to install the lower A-arm bar upside down. I notice this because the right/front (2 bolts) were not threaded as fully as the left and the thread was visible between the bar and the cross member, where as the left bar is fully seated at the front.

I'm looking for a second/third ... opinion on a safe way to spin the bar short of having to remove the spring (a second opinion on my being a moron is not required but welcome).

My thought is as follows. (note, this is a rolling chassis at the moment with no engine/tranny but everything else is complete). Install the engine which will provide additional weight to hold down the frame. Jack up the frame a bit from centre cross member (with a wood board and foam to distribute the load). Place a jack under the lower A-arm bar. Loosen the front and rear screw to allow the bar to rotate. Remove the 2 front bolts and the large rear bolt from the bar then slowly lower the jack down about to another jack to support the lower Arm, about 2 inches to allow the bar to spin 180 degrees. Jack the bar back in place.

For added safety I could place a some sort of wood brace between the shock and the spring on the tire side (in case the spring wants to shift).

The big question is if the engine provides enough ballast to hold down the frame allowing the bar to be jack back up to the frame.

Alternatively I could rig a spring compressor but it seems better to leave the spring as unloaded as possible. (It may make sense to just raise the frame at the middle until the A-Arm bar is unloaded but it seems the tire might want to move outward if the arm is not supported).

Anyone else had to do this before - and recovered safely???

Thanks for the help as always.


Michael B.

[Bill M.]

Re: Ok, I'm a moron ! Second opinion would help.

Pull the spring. Messing with a loaded coil spring is just too dangerous.

[Joe L.]

Re: Ok, I'm a moron ! Second opinion would help.

Sorry for the long post.

After thinking I'd been supremely careful putting on every part and with the engine coming in next week I just noticed it's possible to install the lower A-arm bar upside down. I notice this because the right/front (2 bolts) were not threaded as fully as the left and the thread was visible between the bar and the cross member, where as the left bar is fully seated at the front.

I'm looking for a second/third ... opinion on a safe way to spin the bar short of having to remove the spring (a second opinion on my being a moron is not required but welcome).

My thought is as follows. (note, this is a rolling chassis at the moment with no engine/tranny but everything else is complete). Install the engine which will provide additional weight to hold down the frame. Jack up the frame a bit from centre cross member (with a wood board and foam to distribute the load). Place a jack under the lower A-arm bar. Loosen the front and rear screw to allow the bar to rotate. Remove the 2 front bolts and the large rear bolt from the bar then slowly lower the jack down about to another jack to support the lower Arm, about 2 inches to allow the bar to spin 180 degrees. Jack the bar back in place.

For added safety I could place a some sort of wood brace between the shock and the spring on the tire side (in case the spring wants to shift).

The big question is if the engine provides enough ballast to hold down the frame allowing the bar to be jack back up to the frame.

Alternatively I could rig a spring compressor but it seems better to leave the spring as unloaded as possible. (It may make sense to just raise the frame at the middle until the A-Arm bar is unloaded but it seems the tire might want to move outward if the arm is not supported).

Anyone else had to do this before - and recovered safely???

Thanks for the help as always.


Michael B.

Michael------


Yes, there is a "right side" and wrong side" to install the LOWER a-arm shafts. The upper a-arms are completely "symmetric" and can't be installed incorrectly.

To make the correction, you could use a tool like the GM/Kent-Moore #J-22739 (no longer available) or a tool made up to be equivalent to the aforementioned. GM has always recommended that the lower a-arms be removed from the INNER end using the J-22739. Check your factory service manual for instructions and photos.

The tool pictured below was made up for me years ago by a fellow, one Joe Fedor, that, over a course of many years, taught me more about mechanics than anyone else in my life. BY FAR. I absolutely TREASURE this tool (and all of the other tools he made up for me over the years) even though I obviously don't use it very often. You can make up or have one made up just like it. It's not a complicated piece.

Joe passed away a lot of years ago but I think of him often whenever I'm doing any sort of mechanical project, and whenever I use or come across one of his tools.

[Harmon C.]

Re: Ok, I'm a moron ! Second opinion would help.

I would use a 5/8 or larger threaded rod in the shock mount hole with a flat bar to hold it centered on the bottom. With the threaded rod tight you should get the two inches you need to turn it over. I would pull the shaft back up with short lengths of threaded rod until I can get one of the bolts srarted on the side with two holes. Be safe as their are many ways to get hurt with a spring. I change both springs this way in about two hours only taking out the three bolts in the shaft.

[Chuck G.]

Re: Ok, I'm a moron ! Second opinion would help.

Here's a link to some pix of the tool Lyle describes.

https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthre...59409&uid=7026

Chuck

[Michael B.]

Re: Ok, I'm a moron ! Second opinion would help.

The threaded bar with a steel plate was how I installed the spring originally. Obviously there is too much load at the pivot point to risk it based on the Overwhelming opinions.

The only thing I'll add is that the stock 5/8" rod is insufficient to do the job. I tried this originally with steel rod from Home Depot using a long hex bolt and it still ate the thread. I used the grade 8 thread from a borrowed spring compressor kit and used the steel plate at the bottom.

Thanks for all the responses.

Michael B.

[Richard T.]

Re: Ok, I'm a moron ! Second opinion would help.

I would pull the spring and be safe. If anything goes wrong you risk getting seriously injured. Really not worth it. Good luck. Rich

[Edward B.]

Re: Ok, I'm a moron ! Second opinion would help.

Added endorsement to what the others have said - pull the spring, it is too dangerous to attempt otherwise.

[Harmon C.]

Re: Ok, I'm a moron ! Second opinion would help.

Chain the assembly so the spring can't get out and hurt you. It will only be lowered a few inches. Why would you want to take the spring out when all that needs done is turn over the shaft by rotating it 180 degrees? Beware of a compressed spring but only be afraid if you think what you are doing is unsafe. I have changed maybe 25 spring sets and still have all my teeth. Use a method you feel is safe.
HanD

[Michael B.]

Re: Ok, I'm a moron ! Second opinion would help.

Hi Lyle,

My intent is to remove the shock, put a 5/8's grade 8 threaded rod through the shock tower to steel plate below the control arm (which is how I originally installed the spring - along with a set of J-hooks). I'm going to drill a couple additional holes to screw into the lower shock mount holes for stability. AND then chain to the frame (which I did before) so I don't have to test my medical plan should anything let loose.

Once this is set up I'll compress the spring just a bit, unbolt the bar and unload so I can test the compressor is in control, then lower it gently rotate, recompress the spring, change my underwear.

Thanks.

[Harmon C.]

Re: Ok, I'm a moron ! Second opinion would help.

I use the shock mount holes to keep the threaded rod centered also. If you help pull the A-arm back up with some small threaded rods in the shaft mounting holes I feel more in control of the job and the nuts on the 5/8 rod turn with less effort.
Good Luck and be Safe

[Michael B.]

Re: Ok, I'm a moron ! Second opinion would help.

great suggestion. I didn't think of that. Thanks.

[Philip C.]

Re: Ok, I'm a moron ! Second opinion would help.

Mike if you car has F41, use a spring compresser that uses the shock hole and J clamps that hook to the spring , so the spring is held into the frame, the F41 springs are shorter and doesnt take much to unload the lower arm. ANY load on the lower control arm from the spring and your not going to have a easy time moving it around to line it back up. Std springs you can be done the same way but you might have to undo one of the ball joints, the upper one I'd say, with spring held in and the control arm free you can then unbolt the lower arm and spin the bar then bolt it back up and then jack the lower arm up to bolt the ball joint and then release the spring. Phil 8063

[Joe L.]

Re: Ok, I'm a moron ! Second opinion would help.

The threaded bar with a steel plate was how I installed the spring originally. Obviously there is too much load at the pivot point to risk it based on the Overwhelming opinions.

The only thing I'll add is that the stock 5/8" rod is insufficient to do the job. I tried this originally with steel rod from Home Depot using a long hex bolt and it still ate the thread. I used the grade 8 thread from a borrowed spring compressor kit and used the steel plate at the bottom.

Thanks for all the responses.

Michael B.

Michael-----


Using grade 8 steel rod for this job is absolutely ESSENTIAL (as you've found out on your own). I would NEVER, EVER attempt this with hardware store type ungraded or grade 2 allthread rod. Also, acme thread rod is best (this is the type of thread found on the rods of most internal spring compressors). This type of rod is NOT easy to find. Chances are you won't stand a chance of obtaining it in any hardware store on this planet. You'll need to get it from a source like McMaster -Carr or Grainger. Or, you can use the rod from an internal spring compressor.

It's also a good idea to use a thrust bearing between the turned nut and the surface it turns against. Otherwise, you'll generate a terrific amount of friction that will wear the rod (even grade 8 acme thread) and create difficulty in turning the nut. You can get suitable thrust bearings from a bearing supply store or McMaster-Carr. A GOOD internal spring compressor may already have one.

[Michael B.]

Re: Ok, I'm a moron ! Second opinion would help.

thanks Phil. It's standard springs. If I do have to loosen the ball joint I'll let you know - just in case anyone else hits this problem.

By the way, Joe, thanks for the image of the tool from your friend. Much of this project I've spent rigging and welding my own tools so I always appreciate the creativity of others.

Cheers.