63 Frame Restoration Questions Correct or Not

[Ernie F.]

Re: 63 Frame Restoration Questions Correct or Not

Hey, I've got some of those shoes. Are the worth anything?

[Michael H.]

Re: 63 Frame Restoration Questions Correct or Not

Hey, I've got some of those shoes. Are the worth anything?

NO. In fact they're dangerous. For your protection, send all that you have to me so I can properly dispose of them.

I look out for my friends.

[Harry S.]

Re: 63 Frame Restoration Questions Correct or Not

Michael, what a nice guy you are!

[Michael H.]

Re: 63 Frame Restoration Questions Correct or Not

Michael, what a nice guy you are!

Always willing to assist those in a spot.

So, no response to my question above??

[Ernie F.]

Re: 63 Frame Restoration Questions Correct or Not

Thanks Michael,

You are way to kind! I’m sure these nice people I would be putting at risk will appreciate your help in this matter!

What I want to know and this may hurt some people’s feelings. . .

Why with all the unanimous documentation on the black out, is this not more detailed in the JG. A statement like “may have evidence of black paint” is pretty vague when in fact this is not even paint! Aside from Stuart no one has actually said they did not see this.

As mentioned in my original post, this is not the first 63-64 chassis I’ve done, but I guess this time something clicked when we kept finding the stuff. To add to this a little more, we have about 50 half shafts used from different years in stock and almost all of them have some form of this coating on them. I’ve not looked at the drive shafts, backing plates and/or other suspension items that we have used, but I’m going to on Thursday.

I wonder if maybe this might be a case of too many cars judged the other way to make a change. How deflating would it be to spend countless hours working on a car, making top flight only to find out you need to spay goo on the car now. God awful ungly for sure!

While I agree it is not a pretty sight to see in the least bit, I disagree in the detail that is presented in the JG. What is right is right! I’m not trying to get something going here but with original St. Louis assembly line pictures, low mileage cars, disassembled cars with positive proof, I would think a more accurate change would be made. With all the emailed pictures and info from other 63-64 people, I have not seen one picture in the assembly plant without this "black out" treatment! I have not seen one low mileage documented cars without it! I would have to say the somewhere someone has a picture of a car that is documented without this treatment if the black out with goo did not exist.

I think I’ve taken in enough now to just sit back and return to my infrequent usere status!

Thanks guys for all the pictures, words of encouragement, emails. I’ll be watching.

Take care,

Ernie

[Michael H.]

Re: 63 Frame Restoration Questions Correct or Not

Here are a few interesting pictures. One is a correct 63 rear brake drum. The other is a shot from a 1963 Car & Driver magazine road test of a brand new 63 coupe.
It will be interesting if anyone can figure out why these pic's refer to the way the rear complete control arm, spindle and related parts were painted as a single unit.

By the way, forget the yellow stripe on the drum. It has nothing to do with it.

So, not even a guess from anyone? Or is everyone ignoring the blackout discussion, hoping it will go away?
Look at the brake drum, then look at the spindle flange between the studs in the two pic's that I posted.

[Stuart F.]

Re: 63 Frame Restoration Questions Correct or Not

All I can say is I am sure glad mine doesn't have that goop on the undercarriage, and specially the brake drums as I did a major job on them a few months back - removing my sintered metallic shoes once and for all. Michael; I understand you are collecting those old shoes to dispose of properly. Well, I don't think mine will make good conversation pieces around the coffee table, Yuk! I also have a set of replacement drums that would not work either. I thought they might so I painted them with "Cast Blast" so they would look like they did when new. I also tried to break in my new Matrix Ceramic shoes with them and that failed, so I have not tried to return them yet (not worth a trip to Eckler's).

I don't know why my car seems to be the exception here; perhaps we burned it all off on our high speed runs in the desert or the heat turned it to liquid and it dripped off, but none of these goopy pictures rings a bell with my memory of over 45 years experience in, on, and under my baby.

But, I will concede to the majority opinion and evidence. All I can say, from what I've seen in these pictures, I'm sure glad I never had to deal with that stuff. I probably would not have done the work under this car that I did over the years. Maybe their machine was running lean or not working on July 9, 1963 - what can I say?

Stu Fox

[Dan H.]

Re: 63 Frame Restoration Questions Correct or Not

So, not even a guess from anyone? Or is everyone ignoring the blackout discussion, hoping it will go away?
Look at the brake drum, then look at the spindle flange between the studs in the two pic's that I posted.

Hi Michael, guess I'll have to paint my drums on the spindles so I can have nice black circles on the them! I remember my one owner 63 Coupe, it had under coat all over the suspension and sides of frame rails. Always thought it was a Dealer over kill under coat job!
Dan

[Michael H.]

Re: 63 Frame Restoration Questions Correct or Not

All I can say is I am sure glad mine doesn't have that goop on the undercarriage, and specially the brake drums as I did a major job on them a few months back - I don't know why my car seems to be the exception here; perhaps we burned it all off on our high speed runs in the desert

Stu,

Are you saying that you crossed the desert? By chance, did you get too close to "area 51". If so, I'll bet that's exactly what happened to all the chassis black on your car. Strange things always happen around there.

Ok, I guess I'll have to "splain" why the two pictures that I posted are related, and conclusive.

In the first picture, notice the number of holes in the drum, in addition to the 5 holes for the studs? There are two larger holes between the five stud holes?
Now look at the spindle flange in the picture of the new 63 with the brake drum removed. See the two black paint spots on the spindle flange between the studs that just happen to match the two extra holes in the drum?
Didja also notice that the center hub section of the spindle is painted black?

Wouldn't that be a pretty good indication that the entire assembly was painted after it's completely assembled ?

I get a chuckle out of how so many with 63-64's have a valid reason why his particular car doesn't have/never had any of that boring blackout.

[Michael H.]

Re: 63 Frame Restoration Questions Correct or Not

Hi Michael, guess I'll have to paint my drums on the spindles so I can have nice black circles on the them! I remember my one owner 63 Coupe, it had under coat all over the suspension and sides of frame rails. Always thought it was a Dealer over kill under coat job!
Dan

Dan,

I can certainly understand why most people wouldn't want to coat everything in black goo but I think a coat of semi gloss black on the rear susp/drive components would somewhat accurately recreate "the look" of a new 63-64.
If I were to restore a car that wouldn't be driven, I would definitely use black goo but for a car that will see a lot of use, I would probably go with the semi gloss/flat paint. They look about the same. sorta.

[Dan H.]

Re: 63 Frame Restoration Questions Correct or Not

Dan,

I can certainly understand why most people wouldn't want to coat everything in black goo but I think a coat of semi gloss black on the rear susp/drive components would somewhat accurately recreate "the look" of a new 63-64.
If I were to restore a car that wouldn't be driven, I would definitely use black goo but for a car that will see a lot of use, I would probably go with the semi gloss/flat paint. They look about the same. sorta.

Michael, one thing I forgot and should have mentioned, I did a body off on my 64 Coupe, vin 8477, and it had a rather smooth application of the chassis tar based paint with no 'thick' stuff like was on my 63 chassis. Appears that chassis preservation might have been moving away from the Brea Tar Pit stuff to a more assembly line friendly coating. I recoated my 64 with Dupont 'tar' based paint still available in 1980's. Like the original coating, it came off with just solvent/gasoline etc. Any other '64' owners have a comment on 64 chassis coatings?
Dan

[Stuart F.]

Re: 63 Frame Restoration Questions Correct or Not

Michael;

We did take two trips to Vegas, but I don't know how close we came to area 51 - I'll have to check the map. You might have something there. I worked on a lot of classified projects at the range (White Sands), but I did not know of Area 51 then (need to know). I know we had to shut down the range when they were flight testing the SR-71 (couple years before it was made public), but I didn't know what that was at the time either.

We sure have had fun with this one. Hope you don't take anything too personal. I'm not looking to take any issue with you in anyway, rather I'd like to understand why I can't remember the black gooooooo. I was hoping someone would come forward with a reasonable explanation, as you said in jest; the operator was off sick that day, etc. Otherwise, I guess I'll have to chalk it up to loosing too many brain cells.

Thanks for the fun. You did one heck of a job to research and document proof of your point. You're a good man Michael.

Stu Fox

[Michael H.]

Re: 63 Frame Restoration Questions Correct or Not

Michael;

We did take two trips to Vegas, but I don't know how close we came to area 51 - I'll have to check the map. You might have something there.

We sure have had fun with this one.

Thanks for the fun. You did one heck of a job to research and document proof of your point. You're a good man Michael.

Stu Fox

Also heard if you park a Corvette near Area 51 over night, all the body paint/primer will be gone in the morning.

About 25 years ago, I think it was at the Bloomington Gold event, an owner showed up with what WAS a very nice low mileage original 63 or 64 (can't remember) that had absolutely zero coating on the frame or any suspension parts. Most of the frame and susp components were bare unrusted steel. His claim was that the car was delivered exactly that way when new because no paint stripper was used when the bottom was cleaned. Only solvent.
If I remember correctly, Jorjorian and I judged the car and it lost full points for originality on the frame and all suspension/drive components.

Yes, this has been a fun thread. About once a year, this topic comes up here and it's always interesting.

I still have a LOT of ammunition/pictures that I haven't even posted yet. I usually post just a few at a time.

Next time, I'll dig out the pic's of the 7000 mile red/red 63 FI coupe from California that Krughoff owned. Almost every inch of the frame/susp/drive chassis black was still on it when I shot the pic's 30 years ago. Wonder where that car is today? #5415.

[Ernie F.]

Help!

Problem today!!!! In taking the half shafts apart it appears to me as if someone has done some work on the passenger side of the car.

When we removed the right hand side of the trailing arm we found the shock bolt was moving inside the spindle support! We welded up the spindle support and machined it back to its original shape from the shaft wallowing out the holes. We welded the original shock mounting bracket and machined it as well. Both parts are fixed and ready to install.

My problem is that what ever went wrong in this car when ever, caused someone to remove the spindle shaft flange and replace it with the newer design. Obviously someone has been inside the RH side trailing arm before.

So, my question is. . . Anyone got an original U-Joint flange for a 1963. They are different and the later model will not fly.

In another note, the spindle support is the wide V style as original, but in my amazement there is not a casting date on this support! Anyone ever see one like this.

It has not been modified; the surface of this support is flat between the two screw impressions in the casting.

Ernie.

[Timothy B.]

Re: 63 Frame Restoration Questions Correct or Not

Ernie,

I remember reading there was a TSB about the halfshaft flange not seating correct in the spindle flange and the fix was to change both to the newer design. Also, is the car early enough to have the slip fit bearings as was changed due to a problem, this may be the reason.