63 Frame Restoration Questions Correct or Not

[Joe R.]

Re: 63 Frame Restoration Questions Correct or Not

Paul,

The "black goo" is an asphalt based material that was sprayed on "Everything that was not painted". The "blackout person" was told to black out everything that was bare metal. And he did that in some degree of regularity! Certainly based on the understanding of the employee and the shift the car recieved blackout. Now I'm NOT talking about blackout on the back of the hood OR fenderwells.

I'm talking blackout before the body drop! Just before the body drop!

Think of it this way. A completely ready frame is coming down the line and you have to use the asphalt based material to stop the rust on all bare metal. You shoot the rear shafts, driveshaft and steering box with a large fan of material coming from your gun. The frame moves on down the line and what do you have? Rear shafts and driveshaft that has been 1/2 painted and RUNS. Now the bare metal on the otherside of the shaft rusts on the way to the dealer and you have the pattern that is shown above.

I have been fortunate to have had several 63's and 64's during my life and ALL of them have had the same pattern to some degree.

Simple explanation for a simple process!

Now go out and duplicate that to make your 63-64 EXACTLY like a showroom Corvette!

Breaks your heart doesn't it???????

JR

[Dan H.]

Re: 63 Frame Restoration Questions Correct or Not

Joe is correct, a good reference is in Nolands book, the pictures of the underside of new 63 and 64 chassis are very representative of the era. The sway bar was 'sprayed' from the top with runs curling around it. Only the attaching bolts of the sub assemblies appear natural still. My 64 sn 8477 in late 70's even had the tar paint ontop of the brakelines from above, before body drop. Nolands pictures also show the front spindles, tie rods etc. blacked out completely. It is getting so hard to be able to study an untouched car to verify the processes used when it was new. Ernies going about it in a fashion that will result in a much truer display of how these cars were. I used to lube new 63/64 Corvettes at Standard Oil in Ohio, wish I had pictures of the 'first timers' I did!
Dan

[Michael H.]

Re: 63 Frame Restoration Questions Correct or Not

Joe is correct, a good reference is in Nolands book, the pictures of the underside of new 63 and 64 chassis are very representative of the era. The sway bar was 'sprayed' from the top with runs curling around it. Only the attaching bolts of the sub assemblies appear natural still. My 64 sn 8477 in late 70's even had the tar paint ontop of the brakelines from above, before body drop. Nolands pictures also show the front spindles, tie rods etc. blacked out completely. It is getting so hard to be able to study an untouched car to verify the processes used when it was new. Ernies going about it in a fashion that will result in a much truer display of how these cars were. I used to lube new 63/64 Corvettes at Standard Oil in Ohio, wish I had pictures of the 'first timers' I did!
Dan

I agree, and I'll tell ya this. The rear suspension was coated long before it was assembled to the chassis. That unit, which would consist of the differential, half shafts, control arms, brake drums and backing plates was coated in the basement of the St Louis plant. All of em!

The 63 and 64's were unique in this way, totally different than the process, or lack of, for 65 and later, but quite similar to the way the complete differential assembly was painted for 62 and earlier. Everything was painted at the same time. Housing, diff, drums and backing plates. Painted as an assembly. I think most C1 guys know this, right?

Look at the pic of the new rear susp/drive assembly in the picture above. Other than the cross member and strut rod bracket that were painted separately, that entire assembly is coated in chassis black in the basement of the plant. That's exactly what every one looked like for all 63-64's.

I bought a brand new 64 coupe in spring 1964 and one of the first things I did was put the car on the hoist at Grampas gas station to see what the underside looked like. I still vividly remember the black goo on everything. (I didn't like it then, though)


Some claim that the rear brake backing plates are painted but the spindle support is not. If only the back side is coated and not the brake shoe side, I'd be very interested in hearing an explain as to how that might have happened.
To me, that would indicate that the assembly was together when coated. There's no other logical assembly sequence that would produce the same results.

We also know, for certain, that the brake drum was in place when the assembly was coated. The center hub of the spindle had chassis black on it but not the flange area that was covered by the drum. (which also explains why the first foot or two of the parking brake cables would be coated, whch they were)

I know I've bored you guys with this many times over the years (decades, actually) and a lot of people resist, or don't believe it, but it's coming folks. Don't be surprised if points are deducted at the next big NCRS event if there is no chassis black coating on all of the mentioned items.

Later, we'll get into front suspension and the steering gear......

[Ernie F.]

Re: 63 Frame Restoration Questions Correct or Not

I think tomorrow I'll post more pictures to my site and then post them here. I have black on the back of the brake shields all four, on the linkage and other areas.

The drive shaft and half shafts are pretty much what started this since they were the first items to be removed. The drive shaft had this on both sides of it! What really caught my eye was when it hit the parts washer and everything under it was new looking.

Norm that works in our parts department purchased one new and made the statement that when he had the car on the lift at Broadway Chevrolet he was shocked to see undercoating on the bottom.

Anyway, I'll see if I can post more pictures showing the yellow, orange and green stripes preserved under this goo tomorrow

Ernie

[Dan H.]

Re: 63 Frame Restoration Questions Correct or Not

Ernie, you've reminded me of when I washed off my 60K mile 63 suspension parts in the 80's. Some of the 'coating' was already history with light rusty surface, but a smooth shiny surface under the remaining 'tar' paint. Most of the coating was uniform but also there was a 'secondary' coating of thicker stuff with runs etc. Maybe a before and after frame assembly coating system, with 'bubba' doing the thick stuff shot on last on the line before body drop. Gee, you're gonig to have fun making the 63 ugly enough!
Dan

[Alan D.]

Re: 63 Frame Restoration Questions Correct or Not

I found the same thing on my Mar64 car, ie blackout every where. It protected the underlining paint marks at may places on the car.
The half shaft showed many shinny areas as shown above when I cleaned. I also spent a lot of time removing that black stuff from the underside of the fiberglass so it may have been sprayed also. Used kerosene to start cleaning and then finished with brake cleaner, worked great.

When cleaning the rear end I uncovered the yellow marks and found all the paint marks on the pinion flange and no rust at all. If it was coated after shipping that area would have rust on it - it look new.

[Joe R.]

Re: 63 Frame Restoration Questions Correct or Not

Alan,

Just looky at this pic!

What do you think this guy was spraying? That rear end is shiney and wet!

JR

[Ernie F.]

Re: 63 Frame Restoration Questions Correct or Not

Anyone else have pictures out there? I'd like to see them! If so, please email them to Ernie@Willcoxcorvette.com

Also, anyone have any idea what I should use to replicate this stuff? I'll take any and all pictures that will make this easier for us.

Alan: You are exactly right! We keep finding fresh color paint under the coating. Even the color paint has runs in it too!

Ernie

[Alan D.]

Re: 63 Frame Restoration Questions Correct or Not

Always liked this one, notice the messy area in the center of the half shaft, bet that's one of those areas the famous mitting word came from. When moving the assembly up bet workers grabbed the half shafts to guide the assembly over to the frame. Regardless it shows more black.

[Michael H.]

Re: 63 Frame Restoration Questions Correct or Not

Anyone else have pictures out there?

This is a shot from the 63 assembly line. (not the pilot line) I blew up/cropped the area of the differential. The pic was from some time in the first half of 63 production.
The differential housing is painted chassis black but the companion flange for the drive shaft has obviously been masked/cupped before the paint operation.

[John D.]

Re: 63 Frame Restoration Questions Correct or Not

About the only thing on a 63 rear end that does not have some sort of black on it is the spring.
To repeat it has been said that a child could restore a 63 chassis as far as the colors go as it is mostly black. Mostly is the key word.
A 63 chassis and a early C4 engine have a lot in common. Both are blacked out. Maybe poor example. One that I have never said before but since I am into the early C4's and the 63's they at least have that much in common. JD

[Michael H.]

Re: 63 Frame Restoration Questions Correct or Not

Here are a few shots of a completely unrestored 63 that has only 7000 original miles. The underside of the car was just solvent washed so some of the chassis black appears some what shinny.
Note the black on the spindle support, backing plate and half shaft.

The pic of the differential and half shafts also clearly show that these items were originally covered in chassis black, just like all 63-64's were.

[Ernie F.]

Re: 63 Frame Restoration Questions Correct or Not

Great pics these are going to help me. Alan, notice the snubber cushions by the workers left arm. Ready for install. . .

[Ernie F.]

Re: 63 Frame Restoration Questions Correct or Not

Here is a good picture of the passenger side shock bolt. Shows the black stuff and the finish on the bolt.



Here is a shot of the brake backing plates.

[Bob B.]

Re: 63 Frame Restoration Questions Correct or Not

This is a shot from the 63 assembly line. (not the pilot line) I blew up/cropped the area of the differential. The pic was from some time in the first half of 63 production.
The differential housing is painted chassis black but the companion flange for the drive shaft has obviously been masked/cupped before the paint operation.

Hey Mike check out the biskets on the cross member that bolts to the frame. The early car biskets had only had two sets of bent over tabs 180 apart that I told you about on my car that I had to go back to the dealer many times for a clunking noise in the rear end after hard acceleration and letting off the gas. The tabs straighten out from all the torque and let the bisket come out and catch on the cross member and then bang back into place when you let off the gas. As you will note all the later cars and I have no idea when it changed have 4 sets of tabs. By the way the dealer never did find the problem and that is a whole stoy in itself. Bob 63 FI #618 Convert