how can you tell if a car came factory with sidepipes? besides the obvious

[Ronald L.]

Re: how can you tell if a car came factory with sidepipes? besides the obvious

Two questions for real side pipe cars, the rear cut out - how was that done and was there variation?

What does the 66JG say?

Second - the metal splash shields, with or without rubber?

[William C.]

Re: how can you tell if a car came factory with sidepipes? besides the obvious

You are correct, no foam strip nor staple holes for a real sidepipe car, the notches at the rear of the rocker area were hand cut and many variations exist, the only certainty on that item is that it should be cut or notched.

[Ronald L.]

Re: how can you tell if a car came factory with sidepipes? besides the obvious

Bill,

Thank you for confirming the variation.

This morning I pulled off the shields and took as good of photos that one can take of all these original parts and areas.

A little high rez to post right now off the camera, I just got up to the computer to look at all of them large scale, but all this is intact and never molested. given about 20-30% of the frame paint still shows, shields have 50+, bolts look un touched, red paint drips on the down standing flanges of the rocker area - real original stuff.

In reality I figured these rear notches were cut as a guy would cut stuff working on the line 8 hours a day, slice this way, slice the other and snap it off. Cutting that are would have been a pain and took a lot longer that the short cut.

[Gary S.]

Re: how can you tell if a car came factory with sidepipes? besides the obvious

This thread got long, but at the end I still am questioning the definitive answer, how can you tell...

Given that we have already eliminated the back panel, it has the red primer over spray consistent with other parts of the back end of the car...


My question(s) are below.

First - pulling things apart, there is zero evidence anything was welded or riveted -- that being the standard car rocker panel brackets. Nothing, smooth.
Second - the body notches are there as the picture above this thread.

My first concern is at the rear, the AIM for 66 shows a curved cutout and the article in the Corvette Restoration Guide "seems" to just repeat this arc cut out.

Does anyone see variation on how these were notched out at the rear?

Second has to do with a recent post for the metal splash shields, any one have a correct version picture for 66?

I had a 66 that was not a side pipe car and that one had foam rubber strip stapled to the metal - side pipe cars do not?

With no 66JG, who has the definitive list of what is correct and not?

Lots has been written on the DB about sidepipes if you do a search. Having had many sidepipe cars, restoring a real SP 67 now and judged many too, there is a lot to be written and hard to explain in words about every detail on the DB. I have seen many fakes show up at judging meets. The bird cage notches are scrutinized for shape and consistency...one of the hardest things to make look like factory. At one meet I judged we deducted for the pipes on a 65 and then the owner produced a window sticker. But, as good as the window sticker looked, he lost on many fronts with the two biggest being it was an AO Smith car and the serial was way before pipes were installed in 65. As far as I have ever seen, the sidepipe installation has been the same from the beginning of use (Feb 65ish) thru 67 except that the 65's small splash shield had rubber on them thru about serial 14Kish....forgot the exact number but is in the judging guide. The half moon cut out was always done the same shape from what I have seen. The half moon cut outs shown here...first one is for 67 VIN 1866 and last one is from 67 VIN 15011 and you can see it is the same shape. Small splash pans were the same as ones with rubber..but should not have any staple holes or signs of staples. I have pictures of many others and all have the same radius, so used some template. There are exceptions to most everything and the hangers are another issue. If you want more pictures of every inch of a sidepipe car, email me direct as the DB limits to 4 pictures. Gary (gvettn@gmail.com)

I see Mr. Clupper and I disagree on the half moon cut...he has a lower membership number, so that trumps me I guess. Maybe hand cut using a template?

[John H.]

Re: how can you tell if a car came factory with sidepipes? besides the obvious

In reality I figured these rear notches were cut as a guy would cut stuff working on the line 8 hours a day, slice this way, slice the other and snap it off. Cutting that are would have been a pain and took a lot longer that the short cut.

Ron -

The sill notches on sidepipe cars were pierced with a hydraulic die set in the sill subassembly operation (where the rocker molding brackets were welded on for standard-exhaust cars), before the sill was placed in the main birdcage welding fixture. The curved cut in the rear wheelhouse front filler panel was done off-line with a router and a template fixture.

[William C.]

Re: how can you tell if a car came factory with sidepipes? besides the obvious

I don't think we really disagree Gary, I was referring to the cutoff at the rocker panel, not the "half moon".

[Wayne M.]

Re: how can you tell if a car came factory with sidepipes? besides the obvious

I don't think we really disagree Gary, I was referring to the cutoff at the rocker panel, not the "half moon".

And the irony of it all is that neither the rear rocker panel cutoff nor the "half moon" is necessary for the factory N14 installation; there are no clearance or heat problems, IMO.

[Gary S.]

Re: how can you tell if a car came factory with sidepipes? besides the obvious

I don't think we really disagree Gary, I was referring to the cutoff at the rocker panel, not the "half moon".

Bill...so, I can't read very good! I feel better as I don't want to disagree with the master.

Here are some more pictures I found on the half moon cut for what they are worth. The first two are left and right side of 65 #14511 which I owned 3 times. It is a well known PV car and certainly one of the first sidepipe cars. The 3rd picture is the only thing I have of a real 66 sidepipe car I once owned...VIN 26681...even with what is missing, you can see the point it started and the shape of the arc starting.

[Ronald L.]

Re: how can you tell if a car came factory with sidepipes? besides the obvious

I need to state that all these parts on my have been rusted together for 40+ years,

Back panel has paint blow by as one would expect and that panel looks original un touched

No evidence of hangers

Rocker cut outs in perfect shape

light to mod rusty underbody has zero signs of welding rocker panel brackets and having cars with these cut off - I know what I'm looking for

Splash shields - look to have never been removed, same thing, no staples nor rubber seals and been there done that

No U nor std exhaust radio ground, hole looks un molested

So the only thing is that arc is not an arc on this car. I'll get a down sized pic and post.

[Jack H.]

Re: how can you tell if a car came factory with sidepipes? besides the obvious

I have a 69 and have been thinking about side pipes. I know I would have to deal with the rearend, but would I have to cut any fiberglass on the sides of the car for the pipes to fit properly?

No you wouldn't have to make a single modification IF your car was a factory original side exhaust Corvette... If it wasn't, then you'd be making a 'fake' car (dealer/owner inspired option addition/deletion) and that's not in keeping with NCRS club restoration/preservation rules or norms...

[Stephen L.]

Re: how can you tell if a car came factory with sidepipes? besides the obvious

Is it an absolute certainty that no years of A.O. Smith cars were ever side pipe cars? I cannot find that in the new 1966 judging guide.

[Joe C.]

Re: how can you tell if a car came factory with sidepipes? besides the obvious

Would you like the exact dimensions and configuration of all the "telltales" so you can counterfeit them?
Nobody ever asks about the one aspect of sidepipes which cannot be counterfeited. There is a new procedure in place, which will be foolproof in determining whether or not a Corvette was originally equipped with sidepipes.

I'll give you a clue: it has something to do with carbon dating.

[Ronald L.]

Re: how can you tell if a car came factory with sidepipes? besides the obvious

Joe, That is an old technique.
For the 21st century like the late 20th century gave us body scanning we have have full molecular FTIR car scanning. For any car each parts atoms are compiled via scan with the date in which they became positionally static within the material molecular structure. In the case of those that grind and weld and fill the rocker brackets the flash rust them to look old, that all shows up in the base level scan. That is pretty easy to do, but not on the judging field so... Soon we'll have a part number to date program that we'll be able to take the same cars and via this scan output how many repro, incorrect or original parts are on these cars.

[Tom H.]

Re: how can you tell if a car came factory with sidepipes? besides the obvious

Is it an absolute certainty that no years of A.O. Smith cars were ever side pipe cars? I cannot find that in the new 1966 judging guide.

Correct. No AO Smith car were side exhaust.

[Mark F.]

Re: how can you tell if a car came factory with sidepipes? besides the obvious

Obviously you would look for plugging and patching the rear exhaust holes up but as far as hangers etc...so I can be able to tell from pictures on the net while I look for a 65-67

A lot of good information has been posted to your thread. I didn't see this mentioned however, and it is one easy test to make.

Under car exhausts have hangers toward the rear of the car of course. Most people who convert their under car exhausts remove the hangers, so not seeing them really doesn't tell you anything. Instead, put your fingers up into the holes where the hangers attached on the inside of the frame. The nut and lock washer were located here inside the frame. The lock washer was sharp enough to cause metal burrs on the inside edge of this hole. These holes were not used for anything else, so if there are burrs, there is a good chance it is not an original side exhaust car.