gas prices 1919-2003

[W H.]

Re: gas prices 1919-2003

Jay-----


The main thing that has concerned me for a long time about natural gas is long-term supply. Most, if not all, of the new power plants being built here in California are natural gas-fired. That will take a lot of gas for a lot of years.

Of course, they SAY that we have an abundance of natural gas. However, that's the same thing as they SAID about oil 40 years ago.

Right now, a lot of the natural gas we use is imported from Canada. Plus, a lot in the liquified form (LNG) is imported from the same middle eastern areas we get oil from.

Joe -

If people only knew how valid that point is! I've worked in the piping / power generation industry for the last 30 yrs. The last two 'peaking' units I've worked on (one w/8 gas turbines, one w/4 gas turbines plus heat recovery steam generators) have one thing in common - the gas main entering the project was an 18" dia. pipe @ 750 psi !! In comparison, the gas main entering a typical residence is measured in ounces !

In the `80's and `90's a lot of industries that generated their own steam / power switched to nat. gas to avoid installing expensive pollution controls on their coal or fuel oil boilers. Wonder why the cost of natural gas has shot up???

Dave

[Joe L.]

Re: gas prices 1919-2003

on a related note ----------

BRING BACK LEADED GAS!

Bill-----


I wouldn't hold my breath for that to occur. Currently, there are even "noises" being made about removing lead from aviation fuel, the "last bastion" of leaded fuel.

The late John Lingenfelter once said that UNleadeded gas was the best thing that ever happened for performance.

[Joe L.]

Re: gas prices 1919-2003

Joe -

If people only knew how valid that point is! I've worked in the piping / power generation industry for the last 30 yrs. The last two 'peaking' units I've worked on (one w/8 gas turbines, one w/4 gas turbines plus heat recovery steam generators) have one thing in common - the gas main entering the project was an 18" dia. pipe @ 750 psi !! In comparison, the gas main entering a typical residence is measured in ounces !

In the `80's and `90's a lot of industries that generated their own steam / power switched to nat. gas to avoid installing expensive pollution controls on their coal or fuel oil boilers. Wonder why the cost of natural gas has shot up???

Dave

Dave-----


Yes, and that's one of the reasons that natural gas power plants are usually built at locations which are very near MAJOR natural gas transmission lines. Laying down a lengthy connector between the natural gas supply line and the power plant can add a huge cost to a project. As you mentioned, they can't just tap into a local gas supply utility's local distribution system.

[Wayne W.]

Re: gas prices 1919-2003

It's crazy to think it's 2008 and we still use fossil fuels to burn in every car, boat, and ship. It just shows how greed can ruel the planet. I cannot
believe we have not changed over to clean electric in our every day cars. It just shows how much money and in bed the oil companies are with our governments. They make trillions a year out of taxes from this type of fuel and no one gives a sh....t about the pollution it creates and the out of pocket money we pay for this liquid.

CLEAN ELECTRIC? How do you think that ELECTRICITY is generated? Its as dirty and any other form, perhaps more so.

[Oliver B.]

Re: gas prices 1919-2003

Over here - Germany - gas prices just dropped considerably: after they were some $9,73 a month ago (@ a EUR/$ exchange rate of 1/1.6), now it's down to only $6.22 (oil prices and exchange rate dropping) per gallon! (80% of it is tax on fuel and VAT.)
So, don't weep, brothers...

[Stewart A.]

Re: gas prices 1919-2003

Clean electricity. Solar / Wind turbines / ocean waves it is happening. It's just hard to charge people for clean energy. The government don't want it. It's not going to line there bloody pockets. We have wind turbines here and they are working like a charm. Just think of a Corvette with a big arse electric motor ? HMMMMM that sounds a bit flat ah !! Where do the exhuast pipes go. oh no there is none.

[Scott S.]

Re: gas prices 1919-2003

CNG refueling is not a problem with a home unit. A good friend of mine fuels his Mustang and an Explorer at home. Units both run fine all winter here in Canada. www.fuelmaker.com:)
Scott

[Martin T.]

Re: gas prices 1919-2003

I ordered a Honda GX. Upon its arrival my wife and I took it for a test drive. The car is underpowered for any significant driving. The fuel range is not really an issue as there are so many stations (local gas companies, schools, fedex, etc.) but you are paying a $12,000-$15,000 premium over a base Civic. The GX is a base car. Other negatives are the lack of cargo space and restricted range (about 200 miles). We also looked at the Tesla in Menlo Park, Ca. One heck of a lot of money for such poor fit and finish. Nice looking car but you would think the seat covers would at least be tight. They want $5,000.00 to test drive one. The electric concept is good but the boys in Silicon Valley must be smoking something. I think the Cobalt (oh, sorry, I meant Volt) may be an alternative. Too bad Lutz has his head up his rear on style. The original concept was much better looking ( and yes, most buyers buy the style, shape and comfort ).
Just remembered, G.M. had an electric Corvette Concept Vehicle some years ago (I think it was around the time of the EV-!). Too bad that isn't updated with current technology and offered to the public. You could blow the doors off a Tesla and at a fraction of the price.

[Clem Z.]

Re: gas prices 1919-2003

I ordered a Honda GX. Upon its arrival my wife and I took it for a test drive. The car is underpowered for any significant driving. The fuel range is not really an issue as there are so many stations (local gas companies, schools, fedex, etc.) but you are paying a $12,000-$15,000 premium over a base Civic. The GX is a base car. Other negatives are the lack of cargo space and restricted range (about 200 miles). We also looked at the Tesla in Menlo Park, Ca. One heck of a lot of money for such poor fit and finish. Nice looking car but you would think the seat covers would at least be tight. They want $5,000.00 to test drive one. The electric concept is good but the boys in Silicon Valley must be smoking something. I think the Cobalt (oh, sorry, I meant Volt) may be an alternative. Too bad Lutz has his head up his rear on style. The original concept was much better looking ( and yes, most buyers buy the style, shape and comfort ).
Just remembered, G.M. had an electric Corvette Concept Vehicle some years ago (I think it was around the time of the EV-!). Too bad that isn't updated with current technology and offered to the public. You could blow the doors off a Tesla and at a fraction of the price.

the problem with the volt show car was it was about as aero as a 4X8 sheet of plywood and that is not going to cut it in the MPG deal. all these cars are going to look like a prius because that is the best aero shape for the best MPG. i bet toyota did a lot of wind tunnel testing before the final shape because even the new honda hybrid looks like a prius.

[Martin T.]

Re: gas prices 1919-2003

While the Prius does have an aerodynamic shape, the Lotus isn't too bad nor is the new C-6. Regardless, to integrate the design and make it flow is the answer. Not to plant on a different front grill and bumper and call it something else.

[Clem Z.]

Re: gas prices 1919-2003

martin do you have any relatives in W Va as i sold one of my Z-28s to a fellow by the name of francis tait

[Jack H.]

Re: gas prices 1919-2003

There are MANY angles to consider in this 'story'.

We used to classify pollution as the un-wanted components of incomplete combustion (HC, NOX, Soot, Etc.). Now, the move afoot is to classify the 'wanted' combustion component (CO2) as a 'pollutant' and that's a big problem...

Those who contend global warming is man made, the result of burning fossil fuel would have us discontinue, eliminate and/or SEVERELY reduce these engines (both on vehicles as well as at power generating facilities). But, it's NOT the creation of CO2 that's the issue, it's the fact that we 'borrow' from the past to obtain it...

Fossil fuels came from plant life that grew eons ago. So, their respiration byproduct (plants take in C02 and release O2) is now an integral part of the atmosphere. If we were only to burn fossil fuels that were 'recently' created, we'd have a form of homeostasis (carbon neutral footprint a la E85/flex fuel).

Alternative energy sources like wind & solar have drawbacks. First, they aren't cheap in comparison to fossil fuel equivalents. Second, without some MASSIVE form of electrical energy storage, they're undependable: no power from a windmill when the wind doesn't blow and no power from a solar PV grid at night...

The only power plant that actually produces energy is nuclear (E=MC2) where we convert existing mass into new energy. This technology IS available, but the green guys want to rule it out...

NOBODY is talking about the other side of the coin...economics. Hybrids and electric cars need electricity. The existing power grid is hanging on by its fingernails. We can supplement PEAK power demand with renewable sources (wind, solar), but we can't significantly expand the power base (core HAS to be available round the clock) without some MASSIVE form of storage banks.

If there's a large influx of demand on the grid, price will have to climb based on supply/demand. CNG is an alternative, but it's just another fossil fuel. We're creating new CO2 from yesterday's plant life. The price is attractive, but watch what happens when you DRAMATICALLY increase demand!

If you like $4/gal gasoline prices this summer, you're going to LOVE the $10-15/gal equivalents for the 'friendly/clean' energy sources of tomorrow! You can approximate their embrace today in Europe...

No, I see no real alternative to solving the problem(s) we face without going back to the Eisenhower administration... In the late 50's, we envisioned that 85-95% of the power grid would be contributed by nuclear plants by the turn of the century. Thanks to the environmentalists + a few scares (like 3 Mile Island and Chernoble) we're stuck at 15%...

A new frontier of abundant and CHEAP electricity would go a LONG way to digging us out of the hole we're in + maintaining our GDP & standard of living... We have the technology but not the guts to use it: nuclear!

[Martin T.]

Re: gas prices 1919-2003

Clem, Not that I am aware of. They would have to be fairly distant. I am first generation American.

[Jamie F.]

Re: gas prices 1919-2003

$2.89 in L.A. today. First time I've seen it under $3 in a long time. We had some place showing $5.04 a couple months ago...

[Donald B.]

Re: gas prices 1919-2003

You could blow the doors off a Tesla and at a fraction of the price.

Last I heard the Tesla did 0-60 in about 4 seconds - I would like to know what car could truely "blow the doors off" of anything that is that fast.

Also, someone mentioned how dirty the production of electricity is - if you are ever in So. Cal you're more than welcome to come by my "dirty" house and see what no electric bill for the last five years looks like.

Nuclear is great - as soon as they figure out what to do with the waste - other than bury in the ground for some other generation to deal with.