Unrestored 66-67 Alternator

[Michael H.]

Re: Unrestored 66-67 Alternator

Two questions, what valve covers are those on the 67 not factory right and was the stator painted before assembly? what a PIA and time consuming figuring they were being put out by the 1000's.

KM

The valve covers are incorrect. (along with a few other items) This was done in the mid 70's when the engine was reinstalled (with a new replacement short block) and the owner at that time decided that the description of "chrome valve covers" in the parts book was correct. I don't know what happened to the original orange painted covers or correct L88 plug wires etc.

The center ribs of the stator were painted after it was assembled, but before the alternator was assembled.
The pic of an NOS stator posted earlier by Wayne Midkiff show this to be the case.

[Michael H.]

Re: Unrestored 66-67 Alternator

About 10 years ago I had the chance to interview Ralph Johnston,who was the chief electrical engineer for Delco Remy in the 60s and 70s.I had a number of "odd detail" questions I was trying to find answers to.(after the interview he told me we were all nuts for looking for this level of detail)The question of stator color was part of our discussion.I called Delco Remy corporate today and was put in touch with another "old hand". He confirmed my previous findings.The coatings purpose was to prevent rust on the exposed part of the stator.The coating could have been EITHER caramel or black. The greater portion of PRODUCTION was caramel.This applies to all Delco alternators.Service parts had the black applied. All stators had their windings dipped in caramel insulating varnish.Red is a current rebuilders supply item.I currently have to mix my own caramel varnish.There was no difference in stator production from 63 to 67in this regard. My own handling of alternator cores(hundreds of thousands,literally)bears out what the Delco Remy engineers told me.

I've seen way too many original unrestored 63-67 alternators with black stator bands over the decades so I have to disagree but since neither of us can prove anything one way or the other, we may have to settle for choice.
However, I still haven't seen an unrestored, unrusted original that doesn't show at least some sign of black so I'm definitely on the side of black.
I worked as a mechanic for a Chev dealer in the mid 60's and I don't remember a choice in colors. They were all black.

I'll probably chat with Ralph Johnson tomorrow or Sunday and I'll mention that the stator band color debate is back on.

As a matter of fact, I'm about 90% sure my new 68 Z28 alt had a black stator. I'll see if I can find a detailed engine shot.

The carmel colored coating was on all stators but the black only covered the center ribs.
I think the carmel coating eventually replaced the black on those center ribs because it performed the same task (rust prevention) and eliminated the black paint operation.

[Kevin M.]

Re: Unrestored 66-67 Alternator

I saw that picture and that's what's confusing. What your saying it was sprayed before the case was closed during assembly how did they keep the case clean, or was it sprayed after it's assembly with a mask but then it wouldn't be feathered. Also the point was raised it was dipped in caramel coating if we assume it was either caramel or black then was it dipped in black? Jerry's original looks dipped in black not burnt or dirty.

KM

[John P.]

Re: Unrestored 66-67 Alternator

In all the cases Ive seen the black paint was added to the rib section only.The windings are caramel dipped.The black,when it appears,has been added after dipping but before assembly(no need to mask)

[Michael H.]

Re: Unrestored 66-67 Alternator

I saw that picture and that's what's confusing. What your saying it was sprayed before the case was closed during assembly how did they keep the case clean, or was it sprayed after it's assembly with a mask but then it wouldn't be feathered. Also the point was raised it was dipped in caramel coating if we assume it was either caramel or black then was it dipped in black? Jerry's original looks dipped in black not burnt or dirty.

KM

John Pirkle just correctly answered your question. The stator windings were coated with a carmel color, then the center bands were sprayed with black. As seen in one of the pic's of an NOS stator, in this thread above, there was a bit of black overspray on some of the front/rear edges of the metal portion of the stator.
All this occured long before the case was anywhere near.

[Wayne M.]

Re: Unrestored 66-67 Alternator

Midyear Corvette alternators are all clocked at the 3 oclock or 90degree position with the exception of the 63 model year,which is at the 12 oclock position.

John, Michael -- Here's another (not quite a '66; July '65). Black paint clearly shows on center raised laminations; this shot taken at bottom (by thru-bolt hole) where it's much less exposed to the elements. You can see a few chips in the black paint.

While we've got John P. on the line, always been meaning to ask what the ink stamp means [near the R/F plug] (looks like either an H or two capital C's back-to-back).

P.S. I clocked this at noon to get a shot of both the alt #, date stamps as well as the "H".

I've got 2 more alt's; a 3M17-669, and a 9G11_691, both 42A. At first glance there may be traces of black on the '64 unit, but can't see any on the '69. However, I'd have to split the case to examine the overspray areas before declaring. I pulled the 691 off of a junkyard non-Corvette, but forget the make.

[Brian M.]

Re: Unrestored 66-67 Alternator

Mines been Pirckliezed

So, of all the people that visit this board, there are only three that have unrestored 66-67 alternators? Have all the rest been restored?

[Michael H.]

Re: Unrestored 66-67 Alternator

John, Michael -- Here's another (not quite a '66; July '65). Black paint clearly shows on center raised laminations; this shot taken at bottom (by thru-bolt hole) where it's much less exposed to the elements. You can see a few chips in the black paint.

Great pic's. Thanks Wayne. My guess is that the black was deleted some time around early 69 which would explain why no black on the 691?/

[Michael H.]

Re: Unrestored 66-67 Alternator

Two questions, what valve covers are those on the 67 not factory right and was the stator painted before assembly? what a PIA and time consuming figuring they were being put out by the 1000's.

KM

Kevin,

Here's another pic of the same 12 mile 67 L88 coupe from about 20 years later than the 1st one I posted. The alternator stator appears to be black.
The valve covers and exhaust manifolds are now correctly painted orange, just like they're supposed to be.

This car is currently living at Rogers Corvette Center in Maitland (Orlando) FL. I highly recommend anyone that has a little spare time during the NCRS event at Kissimmee, stop in Rogers place and see it. (and several other very interesting cars)

[Gerard F.]

Re: Unrestored 66-67 Alternator

Michael,

I'm positive that the black stator in the picture of the two stators above is the stator from my production alternator for my 67 base engine, a 37Amp one, 7F16, dated less than 2 weeks prior to my car's production date.

This alternator sat on a shelf in my garage for at least 20 years and was taken off long before I was into restoration. Back then, if you had alternator trouble, you would just buy a cheap generic replacement, and I never wanted to deal with turning in a core for the measely $5-$10 core charge.

About 3 years ago, now into restoration, I figured I'd restore it and replace the stator and rotor with one from a higher amperage generic (since I had put in a Vintage Air system). Actually there is a difference in the windings of the stator between a 37A and a 61A, and not just in the color.

Here's a picture of the two rotors with the original 37A one on the left:



Now the color of the original on the left is what I would call caramel. Looks like they used a little too much red on the generic one on the right.

Perhaps the color of the coating on the stator windings had something to do with the amp capacity, maybe to tell them apart. My 37A stator definitely had a black coating on the windings, and gloss black unlike the paint on the rim.

Before I paint the rim on mine, let me know what you think. Maybe I'll paint the red generic stator windings black at the same time.

[Dale S.]

Re: Unrestored 66-67 Alternator

John Pirkle, You do beautiful work. I was in the parts business for years and sold Champion Parts Rebuilders, Metro, Kimco, Clutch Exchange, Delco, A-1 Cardone and nothing like your product. Thank you again Dale

[Philip C.]

Re: Unrestored 66-67 Alternator

Kevin,

Here's another pic of the same 12 mile 67 L88 coupe from about 20 years later than the 1st one I posted. The alternator stator appears to be black.
The valve covers and exhaust manifolds are now correctly painted orange, just like they're supposed to be.

This car is currently living at Rogers Corvette Center in Maitland (Orlando) FL. I highly recommend anyone that has a little spare time during the NCRS event at Kissimmee, stop in Rogers place and see it. (and several other very interesting cars)

Mike Iam sure you know that the 12 mile L88 does not have its orig engine, so the alt also could be long gone. Phil 8063

[Michael H.]

Re: Unrestored 66-67 Alternator

Mike Iam sure you know that the 12 mile L88 does not have its orig engine, so the alt also could be long gone. Phil 8063

Yes, I know the engine block is not the original. I was the guy that painted the latest/current engine after the block was replaced, for the second time. (looks like I accidently got some orange on the exhaust manifolds)

Most of the rest of the components are original though, including the heads etc.
When the original owner sold the car, the original block was included but the second owner decided to buy a new currently available GM L88 short block instead of rebuilding the original. Long story....

[Michael H.]

Re: Unrestored 66-67 Alternator

Perhaps the color of the coating on the stator windings had something to do with the amp capacity, maybe to tell them apart. My 37A stator definitely had a black coating on the windings, and gloss black unlike the paint on the rim.

Usually, the stator windings only turn black if the regulator has a problem and the alt is over charging. (charging maximum) When new, the windings would have been the typical carmel color. Very common problem. It doesn't necessarily mean the stator is bad though.

[Philip C.]

Re: Unrestored 66-67 Alternator

Yes, I know the engine block is not the original. I was the guy that painted the latest/current engine after the block was replaced, for the second time. (looks like I accidently got some orange on the exhaust manifolds)

Most of the rest of the components are original though, including the heads etc.
When the original owner sold the car, the original block was included but the second owner decided to buy a new currently available GM L88 short block instead of rebuilding the original. Long story....

The story I hear, (back in 77) the whole motor was "missed placed" by a machine shop, in corvette land you hear them all, I would look for an orig little old lady 300 hp P/G car not a totally restored GEM to make a case and a good source of info. The type am sure your looking for. I know of a 67 I'll check out for you. Phil 8063