ZR1's may be short of target!

[Mark W.]

Re: ZR1's may be short of target!

I don't believe I was blaming the laborors for anything. In fact the big 3 are producing cars that have made huge gains during the past decade or so in quality. My comments also weren't specifically about the ZR-1 or Z06, but the American auto industry itself. The UAW has driven up costs of every American car so that they are not cost competative with the imports, even though most of these are built in the US. It seemed a little odd that when the big 3 were begging before Congress a few weeks ago, the president of the UAW was sitting at the table with them. Some additional facts I'm aware of is that some UAW workers not even working draw up to 95% of their pay and the cost of a big 3 car is estimated to be $2000 higher than a comparable Honda, Nissan or Toyota before it even starts down the assembly line. This cost is attributed to UAW pay and benefits. These must change if the US auto industry is to survive, which is the point I was originally trying to make, but didn't explain well.

[Gerard R.]

Re: ZR1's may be short of target!

Congrats on the ZR1

[Harmon C.]

Re: ZR1's may be short of target!

Things you don't understand about the UAW. When you bought GM stock at $10. and it went to $30. and you sold it and made big money the GM workers made the cars and were paid what you called big money.
Each hour a UAW worker worked $.25 as an example was paid into the SUB fund. When you were laid off for any reason if you made $550. and after taxes your take home pay was $400. you got 95% of that or $380. that you had to pay taxes on.They also took off about $25. for the gas you saved staying home for a bottom line of $355. You had to get state unemployment to get SUB so you stood in line at job services each week and the state paid you $300. You then filed for SUB and got $55. from the fund you paid into for every hour you worked. Now you still owed taxes on the $355. at tax time so the net you got was more like $275. not the dollars $400. you made working. A good deal but not 95% as most people think and not payed from a fund GM had control of. Most people shooting their mouth off know nothing about the UAW in 2000. They just read about what happened in 1950.
The cost of health care that GM pays is the bigest problem. If the US had health care paid by the income taxes we pay the cost of a GM line worker would be much less.
The assembly line runs on a mix of cars in a special order so at the line speed you can complete your work in the station time the body is in your work area. As an example maybe only 3 convertibles can be built in a row as some workers have 3 minutes work on them but only 2.5 minutes on coupes. With a line speed of 2.9 minutes the worker gets behind .1 on convertibles but catches up on coupes. This is one of the reasons the number of ZR-1's is limited per day.
I laugh at how many unsold 09 Corvettes their was and about Oct.1 2008 GM raised the price of each Corvette built $1500. on a car that already was overbuilt and the dealers could not sell them.
I was a UAW worker and did not agree with all the union done in the 70's but in the 90's the dead beats were fired and PQI started and the union and the company at my location together did all they could to compete for parts to be built at my location. If anyone in the world could make a part cheaper our plant lost the work as we had to bid on supplying parts and got no special treatment for being a Chrysler plant.I remember when we lost the P/S pump and scraped the machines and one year the new supplier raised the bid price too twice what they supplied the parts for the first year.
I will get off my soap box.

[George C.]

Re: ZR1's may be short of target!

Things you don't understand about the UAW. When you bought GM stock at $10. and it went to $30. and you sold it and made big money the GM workers made the cars and were paid what you called big money.
Each hour a UAW worker worked $.25 as an example was paid into the SUB fund. When you were laid off for any reason if you made $550. and after taxes your take home pay was $400. you got 95% of that or $380. that you had to pay taxes on.They also took off about $25. for the gas you saved staying home for a bottom line of $355. You had to get state unemployment to get SUB so you stood in line at job services each week and the state paid you $300. You then filed for SUB and got $55. from the fund you paid into for every hour you worked. Now you still owed taxes on the $355. at tax time so the net you got was more like $275. not the dollars $400. you made working. A good deal but not 95% as most people think and not payed from a fund GM had control of. Most people shooting their mouth off know nothing about the UAW in 2000. They just read about what happened in 1950.
The cost of health care that GM pays is the biggest problem. If the US had health care paid by the income taxes we pay the cost of a GM line worker would be much less.
The assembly line runs on a mix of cars in a special order so at the line speed you can complete your work in the station time the body is in your work area. As an example maybe only 3 convertibles can be built in a row as some workers have 3 minutes work on them but only 2.5 minutes on coupes. With a line speed of 2.9 minutes the worker gets behind .1 on convertibles but catches up on coupes. This is one of the reasons the number of ZR-1's is limited per day.
I laugh at how many unsold 09 Corvettes their was and about Oct.1 2008 GM raised the price of each Corvette built $1500. on a car that already was overbuilt and the dealers could not sell them.
I was a UAW worker and did not agree with all the union done in the 70's but in the 90's the dead beats were fired and PQI started and the union and the company at my location together did all they could to compete for parts to be built at my location. If anyone in the world could make a part cheaper our plant lost the work as we had to bid on supplying parts and got no special treatment for being a Chrysler plant.I remember when we lost the P/S pump and scraped the machines and one year the new supplier raised the bid price too twice what they supplied the parts for the first year.
I will get off my soap box.

Well said. Seems like bashing the UAW by people is the thing to do.
Did they read that the Japanese were in favor for the bailout of the Big Three ? Seems funny huh ? The Japanese know that some day (I can't wait) that the government here will wake up and but a tariff on foreign built cars here and abroad. Not until then will the domestic car business in this country will come around. Nowhere in the world can a American car be imported without a tariff. We gotta wake up here in this Country.

[Ronald R.]

Re: ZR1's may be short of target!

It is hard to blame a guy for making all he can, it would like blaming ARod for his big contract. But the long and short of GM is they have to become competative. If they are not as efficent as the the other guys then they cont make the same money.

PS Clem I know there are some ZO6's around but they are selling.the ZR1's on the other hand are selling for $20-40 K over MSRP, if anyone knows of one for sale for less, i have a friend with cash.
thanks RDR

[Bill L.]

Re: ZR1's may be short of target!

The UAW is a big problem. It is their work rules even more so than their income. There is no problem with the wages. It is that there are 2-3 people doing what one person should be doing. I have been there as a contractor and have witnessed first hand the union telling me I could not put a wire nut on a piece of equipment I was to repair and test. It took something like four hours and two guys to get a job done that should have taken 30 seconds.

The new UAW workers ought to be up in arms because the old UAW guard has sold them down the river. They should tell Ron to get lost, dissolve the union, work for the same rates, and change the work rules. The ones willing to earn that income would actually make more since they would no longer be paying union dues. It would be a win win. It works at the other non UAW plants!

When I worked in a union they would tell me to stop working so fast. I was making the other guys look bad. Heck, I was just doing my job!

Touche' Joe. Honda just might make a hellava corvette


Kindest Regards,



Bill

[Clem Z.]

Re: ZR1's may be short of target!

The UAW is a big problem. It is their work rules even more so than their income. There is no problem with the wages. It is that there are 2-3 people doing what one person should be doing. I have been there as a contractor and have witnessed first hand the union telling me I could not put a wire nut on a piece of equipment I was to repair and test. It took something like four hours and two guys to get a job done that should have taken 30 seconds.

The new UAW workers ought to be up in arms because the old UAW guard has sold them down the river. They should tell Ron to get lost, dissolve the union, work for the same rates, and change the work rules. The ones willing to earn that income would actually make more since they would no longer be paying union dues. It would be a win win. It works at the other non UAW plants!

When I worked in a union they would tell me to stop working so fast. I was making the other guys look bad. Heck, I was just doing my job!

Touche' Joe. Honda just might make a hellava corvette


Kindest Regards,



Bill

i had the same thing happen in a union shop not UAW but i was not allowed to plug a sweeper into a outlet till a electrician came 40 minutes later to do it. i was on a tight schedule to catch a plane and the boss begged me not to plug it in as there would be a walkout if i did. i understand if you bolt on bumpers you can't bolt on hoods if that is where you are needed that day

[Harmon C.]

Re: ZR1's may be short of target!

The UAW is a big problem. It is their work rules even more so than their income. There is no problem with the wages. It is that there are 2-3 people doing what one person should be doing. I have been there as a contractor and have witnessed first hand the union telling me I could not put a wire nut on a piece of equipment I was to repair and test. It took something like four hours and two guys to get a job done that should have taken 30 seconds.

The new UAW workers ought to be up in arms because the old UAW guard has sold them down the river. They should tell Ron to get lost, dissolve the union, work for the same rates, and change the work rules. The ones willing to earn that income would actually make more since they would no longer be paying union dues. It would be a win win. It works at the other non UAW plants!

When I worked in a union they would tell me to stop working so fast. I was making the other guys look bad. Heck, I was just doing my job!

Touche' Joe. Honda just might make a hellava corvette


Kindest Regards,



Bill

Outside contractors working in a UAW plant doing work in a plant which in house UAW members were laid off and could have done the same job for less money were not welcome. UAW rules were enforced as far as could be to stop jobs being farmed out. During good times when all UAW workers were working the outside contractors could share the wealth with little union problems.
I was a laid off skilled tradesman more than once and if you was in the plant where I worked doing a job that could have been done by UAW workers laid off I would hope the union gave you a rough time.
Many times we did work the company wanted to farm out because it was eaiser for management to let the outside contractor do it than get the office crew to order the material and do a litte work to make it happen in house. Yes the UAW then and now want to save what little work is left for their people and keep the company in business or their will be no jobs.
This country will have a taxpayer revolt someday when unemployment is high and you are taxed more than you get to keep. I hope I see the day we go back to paying 20% tax instead of todays 50% as things are way out of line.

[Ridge K.]

Re: ZR1's may be short of target!

Things you don't understand about the UAW. When you bought GM stock at $10. and it went to $30. and you sold it and made big money the GM workers made the cars and were paid what you called big money.
Each hour a UAW worker worked $.25 as an example was paid into the SUB fund. When you were laid off for any reason if you made $550. and after taxes your take home pay was $400. you got 95% of that or $380. that you had to pay taxes on.They also took off about $25. for the gas you saved staying home for a bottom line of $355. You had to get state unemployment to get SUB so you stood in line at job services each week and the state paid you $300. You then filed for SUB and got $55. from the fund you paid into for every hour you worked. Now you still owed taxes on the $355. at tax time so the net you got was more like $275. not the dollars $400. you made working. A good deal but not 95% as most people think and not payed from a fund GM had control of. Most people shooting their mouth off know nothing about the UAW in 2000. They just read about what happened in 1950.
The cost of health care that GM pays is the bigest problem. If the US had health care paid by the income taxes we pay the cost of a GM line worker would be much less.
The assembly line runs on a mix of cars in a special order so at the line speed you can complete your work in the station time the body is in your work area. As an example maybe only 3 convertibles can be built in a row as some workers have 3 minutes work on them but only 2.5 minutes on coupes. With a line speed of 2.9 minutes the worker gets behind .1 on convertibles but catches up on coupes. This is one of the reasons the number of ZR-1's is limited per day.
I laugh at how many unsold 09 Corvettes their was and about Oct.1 2008 GM raised the price of each Corvette built $1500. on a car that already was overbuilt and the dealers could not sell them.
I was a UAW worker and did not agree with all the union done in the 70's but in the 90's the dead beats were fired and PQI started and the union and the company at my location together did all they could to compete for parts to be built at my location. If anyone in the world could make a part cheaper our plant lost the work as we had to bid on supplying parts and got no special treatment for being a Chrysler plant.I remember when we lost the P/S pump and scraped the machines and one year the new supplier raised the bid price too twice what they supplied the parts for the first year.
I will get off my soap box.

Very, very well stated, Lyle.
Let me tell this short story: I am not a medical doctor, but less a neurosurgeon. I did not complete an undergraduate degree in biologocal science, did not attend, or graduate from medical school, nor did I apply for, have admission granted, or complete a residency in surgery, much less complete the residency requirements for, and approval for board certification from the American Board of Neurological Surgeons.s
I do however have a very good friend that is a board certifed neurosurgeon. I have been in his office many times, discussed his profession at length, and have done work for him occasionally. Would anyone one reading this post like for me to perform the services of a neurosurgeon on them?
Unless one has been a member of a labor union, I would suggest, that one is giving hear-say information about union practices, wage structures, workplace demands, benefit packages, and especially, the impact of labor union on American business.
I know that most posters keep saying they aren't bashing unions, yet,.............................................. ...............................
Seems to me as Americans, we'rs all in this situation together. Looks to me like basicly, there are two choices. We can work together to find reasonable solutions (and we all get to vote for our congrssional representatives), or we can play the blame game.
I choose, the "roll your sleeves up, and find some solutions".
p.s. : how many of you have contacted your congressional representative, and US senator to express your thoughts? How many have contacted the speaker of the house, Nancy Pelosi?

And finally: I sincerely want to wish every member and guest of the NCRS technical discussion board, a very MERRY CHRISTMAS, and HAPPY HOLIDAYS.

[Michael S.]

Re: ZR1's may be short of target!

It's the customers who purchase such cars as the ZR1, not the laborers who assemble the car that are the problem at GM.

Anyone that can afford a ZR1 should be ashamed of themselves for such indulgencel, excess and apparent success in life. Why would ANYONE need a 600HP car that only gets 30MPG on the road in a world with $1.40/gallon gasoline?

Shame on you! Shame, Shame, Shame!

Merry Christmas!