easy one: flash chrome..what processes from triple plating do you bypass?

[Jeffrey S.]

Re: easy one: flash chrome..what processes from triple plating do you bypass?

I was always under the impression chrome is basically clear, it was plated over nickel and that the term triple chrome plating only referred to one additional plating- copper. The copper was used to fill any slight flaws/pitting in the bare steel since it is very soft and easy to buff smooth. I deal with a first/second tier OEM plater who doesn't ever use copper on the new parts but nickel then chrome. He has polished some parts for me and then nickel/chromes them and they look great. It would seem to me that putting chrome directly on steel, you would have to polish the substrate to a brilliant shine to get a good result and on production work that would be impossible. Someone please set me straight. Removing the old chrome is very easy if you have a good source of DC current. The part gets put into a sufuric acid bath and the positive is put on the part and the negative is put on some steel. The chrome and nickel (and copper) come off the part and plate the steel. I do this quite often and it leaves a perfectly clean unmarked part.
Jeff

[Chuck G.]

Re: easy one: flash chrome..what processes from triple plating do you bypass?

Chuck,
Someplace I recall hearing that there are two types of chrome plate. Trivalent (sp?) is one of the terms. What I don't know is if both types are decorative, or one is decorative and the other "hard chrome" plate which is used to protect a part from wear. I suppose I could try to look it up on-line, but my interest level is low at this time.

I am with you in that I thought what we are calling flash chrome, another term is smack chrome, was simply the elimination of two plating steps. Perhaps as Troy points out, this is simply a communication issue. On the other hand, I wouldn't presume to tell a plater how to do his business. And one certainly will not win by trying to force someone to do what they don't want to do.

Interesting. I know that when I had my BB valve covers done, nothing was mentioned to me about any special "solutions".

I had always "assumed" that flash chrome was simply chrome plate applied over bare steel, much like the term "smack chrome".

Chuck

[John H.]

Re: easy one: flash chrome..what processes from triple plating do you bypass?

I was always under the impression chrome is basically clear, it was plated over nickel and that the term triple chrome plating only referred to one additional plating- copper. The copper was used to fill any slight flaws/pitting in the bare steel since it is very soft and easy to buff smooth. I deal with a first/second tier OEM plater who doesn't ever use copper on the new parts but nickel then chrome. He has polished some parts for me and then nickel/chromes them and they look great. It would seem to me that putting chrome directly on steel, you would have to polish the substrate to a brilliant shine to get a good result and on production work that would be impossible. Someone please set me straight.

That's the way I've always understood it, and I've worked with a number of platers. Chevrolet production chrome in the 60's was just nickel on the base metal part, then chrome (no copper base). Chrome is clear, and just protects the bright nickel from oxidation (which is why "chrome polish" isn't a good idea - it's abrasive and gradually removes the clear chrome layer, exposing the nickel to dulling, pitting, and corrosion).

Bumper dies at Chevrolet-Livionia Spring & Bumper required constant maintenance to work out the tool marks from the draw dies to minimize the amount of manual grinding/buffing of the raw stampings prior to plating.

[Brandon T.]

Re: easy one: flash chrome..what processes from triple plating do you bypass?

That's the way I've always understood it, and I've worked with a number of platers. Chevrolet production chrome in the 60's was just nickel on the base metal part, then chrome (no copper base). Chrome is clear, and just protects the bright nickel from oxidation (which is why "chrome polish" isn't a good idea - it's abrasive and gradually removes the clear chrome layer, exposing the nickel to dulling, pitting, and corrosion).

Bumper dies at Chevrolet-Livionia Spring & Bumper required constant maintenance to work out the tool marks from the draw dies to minimize the amount of manual grinding/buffing of the raw stampings prior to plating.

John, if thats correct then "bumper boyz" doesn't know exactly what I'm after then because they said to get the flash chrome I apperance I'm after they would bypass the copper and nickel part....would that make it flash chrome?

but you're saying in the 60's (min is a 68) they used nickel then chrome.

sheesh I don't know this seemed easy but finding someone that I trust now is going to be hard!

you're saying you need the nickel then the clean chrome. However, they said they will cut out the nickel part along with the copper?

[Ian G.]

Re: easy one: flash chrome..what processes from triple plating do you bypass?

I thought flash chrome was where they specifically applied chrome plate only to stainless steel like hub caps and trim.

[Brandon T.]

Re: easy one: flash chrome..what processes from triple plating do you bypass?

I thought flash chrome was where they specifically applied chrome plate only to stainless steel like hub caps and trim.

Yeah I'm not sure..if John is right me and the place I was going to have do mine have a misunderstanding.

John, if what you said earlier is correct then "bumper boyz" doesn't know exactly what I'm after then because they said to get the flash chrome I apperance I'm after they would bypass the copper and nickel part....would that make it flash chrome?

but you're saying in the 60's (min is a 68) they used nickel then chrome.

sheesh I don't know this seemed easy but finding someone that I trust now is going to be hard!

you're saying you need the nickel then the clean chrome. However, they said they will cut out the nickel part along with the copper?

[Dan A.]

Re: easy one: flash chrome..what processes from triple plating do you bypass?

John, if thats correct then "bumper boyz" doesn't know exactly what I'm after then because they said to get the flash chrome I apperance I'm after they would bypass the copper and nickel part....would that make it flash chrome?

but you're saying in the 60's (min is a 68) they used nickel then chrome.

you're saying you need the nickel then the clean chrome. However, they said they will cut out the nickel part along with the copper?

Not clean chrome but clear. John is explaining that the clear chrome provides protection for the Nickel as used on bumpers. This is not flash chrome.

Flash chrome was used on wheel discs and shielding to save on labour intensive polishing.

Dale Pearman posted regarding flash and smack chrome several years back in the archives.

[Michael H.]

Re: easy one: flash chrome..what processes from triple plating do you bypass?

That's the way I've always understood it, and I've worked with a number of platers. Chevrolet production chrome in the 60's was just nickel on the base metal part, then chrome (no copper base). Chrome is clear, and just protects the bright nickel from oxidation (which is why "chrome polish" isn't a good idea - it's abrasive and gradually removes the clear chrome layer, exposing the nickel to dulling, pitting, and corrosion).

Bumper dies at Chevrolet-Livionia Spring & Bumper required constant maintenance to work out the tool marks from the draw dies to minimize the amount of manual grinding/buffing of the raw stampings prior to plating.

I think yer right on the money John. I just talked to a guy that used to work in a chrome shop in Detroit (Tom, the guy you met with the turbo Corvair) and he described the process exactly.
He said copper, the 1st step in show chrome, was used on parts that required an excellent finish, such as bumbers etc.
Flash chrome was the process without copper. Just nickel and chrome.

He also agrees that the chrome process is clear. That last step was some sort of bath (not plating) that made the nickel coat shinny and protected it. ( I didn't know that)

I have engineering documents on some of the fuel line fittings and other misc engine parts for early 60's Corvettes and the prints call for a nickle/chrome finish.

(hope DeGregory see's this last paragraph)

[Dan A.]

Re: easy one: flash chrome..what processes from triple plating do you bypass?

[quote=Michael Hanson (4067);388230]I think yer right on the money John. I just talked to a guy that used to work in a chrome shop in Detroit (Tom, the guy you met with the turbo Corvair) and he described the process exactly.
He said copper, the 1st step in show chrome, was used on parts that required an excellent finish, such as bumbers etc.
Flash chrome was the process without copper. Just nickel and chrome.

He also agrees that the chrome process is clear. That last step was some sort of bath (not plating) that made the nickel coat shinny and protected it. ( I didn't know that)

I have engineering documents on some of the fuel line fittings and other misc engine parts for early 60's Corvettes and the prints call for a nickle/chrome finish.[quote]

Now I'm confused. I didn't think The General used copper at all on production plated bright work.

So is flash chrome, chrome over nickel on steel and smack chrome is chrome over stainless on trim parts?

[Michael H.]

Re: easy one: flash chrome..what processes from triple plating do you bypass?

[quote=Daniel Adie (60);388234]

I Now I'm confused. I didn't think The General used copper at all on production plated bright work.

So is flash chrome, chrome over nickel on steel and smack chrome is chrome over stainless on trim parts?

I don't know. I wonder if those terms refer to the same process, as previously mentioned by someone here.
He said copper would have been used on parts that require a smooth/excellent finish but not on items such as engine parts and probably some interior parts that don't require that level of quality.

I'll see him again later and get more info..

[Steven B.]

Re: easy one: flash chrome..what processes from triple plating do you bypass?

Yeah I'm not sure..if John is right me and the place I was going to have do mine have a misunderstanding.

John, if what you said earlier is correct then "bumper boyz" doesn't know exactly what I'm after then because they said to get the flash chrome I apperance I'm after they would bypass the copper and nickel part....would that make it flash chrome?

but you're saying in the 60's (min is a 68) they used nickel then chrome.

sheesh I don't know this seemed easy but finding someone that I trust now is going to be hard!

you're saying you need the nickel then the clean chrome. However, they said they will cut out the nickel part along with the copper?

Brandon, Paul's Chrome Plating is a very knowledgeable resource. They have done Pebble Beach winners, NCRS, and other cars to original plating and beyond. They were willing to answer questions for me and a fellow I know who has a '54 (original type plating) and restores Duesenbergs, etc. uses them. Their number is 800-245-8679. They can give you the answers you are seeking.

Steve

[John H.]

Re: easy one: flash chrome..what processes from triple plating do you bypass?

This may be too simplistic, but it's the way I've always understood it:

"Show Chrome" - copper, then nickel, then chrome (seldom used in OEM exterior applications).

"Production Chrome" - nickel, then chrome.

"Flash" or "Smack" chrome - plated over polished stainless to prevent oxidation, results in the "icy blue" appearance of all C1/C2 OEM exterior stainless parts.

I can't imagine just chrome (which is clear) plating over a steel base; what gives chromed parts their shine and brilliance is the nickel underneath the chrome; the chrome just protects the nickel from oxidation.

[Jeffrey S.]

Re: easy one: flash chrome..what processes from triple plating do you bypass?

According to the information in the attached website, "flash" is just a very thin coat of any plating. Flash chrome leaves little if any shine.

http://www.finishing.com/282/96.shtml

Jeff

[Brandon T.]

Re: easy one: flash chrome..what processes from triple plating do you bypass?

Thanks guys,

I will give Paul's plating a call!

[Jeffrey S.]

Re: easy one: flash chrome..what processes from triple plating do you bypass?

I was at my regular plater today and showed him one of my original ignition shielding pieces and asked him if he could determine how these were done. He told me these pieces were plated with nickel over bare, unpolished steel stampings and then "flash" plated with a very small amount of chrome- just enough to prevent the nickel from tarnishing. He said this was the most common method used on these types of trim pieces. The only time chrome would ever be put directly on metal would be on stainless (the stainless trim on a C-3 body that lies under the t-top is a good example.) He claimed that if chrome was plated dierectly to steel it be almost white. It could be treated after plating (polishing?) to look better but he says he can't think of any reason to do this.
Jeff