"Matching Numbers" Stamp Pad From Ebay Listing

**Michael W.** · January 15, 2009, 12:45 PM

Re: "Matching Numbers" Stamp Pad From Ebay Listing

Originally posted by Jason Albeck (30617)

Seems plausible, what do you guys think?

No matter what people assume, the owner can still claim that the number match.

**Patrick H.** · January 18, 2009, 08:23 PM

Re: "Matching Numbers" Stamp Pad From Ebay Listing

Originally posted by Brian McHale (28809)

First thing that came to my mind was a factory grindout and re-stamp, with a later re-build and deck message. JMHO.

Same here.

I even went back and looked at it again with magnification.
Despite the grind marks, the letters and fonts don't look out of place or incorrect.
I'd think it interesting to hear Al Grenning's response.

Patrick

**John D.** · January 18, 2009, 09:49 PM

Re: "Matching Numbers" Stamp Pad From Ebay Listing

Originally posted by Patrick Hulst (16386)

Same here.

I even went back and looked at it again with magnification.
Despite the grind marks, the letters and fonts don't look out of place or incorrect.
I'd think it interesting to hear Al Grenning's response.

Patrick

patrick,

Wouldn't you have to pay for that ?

**Patrick H.** · January 18, 2009, 10:36 PM

Re: "Matching Numbers" Stamp Pad From Ebay Listing

Originally posted by John Daly (19684)

patrick,

Wouldn't you have to pay for that ?

Not necessarily.
For many years he has given opinions on pads with a simple e-mail.
I don't think that he visits this board at all, but if someone sent him a link to the picture or the thread on this board, we may get an answer.

I believe that you only pay if you want it in writing.

Patrick

**Michael B.** · January 18, 2009, 10:52 PM

Re: "Matching Numbers" Stamp Pad From Ebay Listing

I think if you e-mailed him he would give you his opinion. That pad looks like one that Al would use to demonstrate that the factory put out some pretty ugly stamps on a regular basis.

**Jerry M.** · January 19, 2009, 03:25 PM

Re: "Matching Numbers" Stamp Pad From Ebay Listing

The crazy Part is: Why would you grind out an IP for an IL if you were counterfieting a car to sell? That might very well be a factory grind down. My understanding is the re-op guys used a circular grinder and that is what that looks like. Just a guess.

**William P.** · September 20, 2010, 08:21 AM

Re: "Matching Numbers" Stamp Pad From Ebay Listing

The pad in question here has been certified by Al Grenning as a factory grind out and re-stamp origonal to this car.
Bill purdy

**Mike G.** · September 20, 2010, 10:09 AM

Re: "Matching Numbers" Stamp Pad From Ebay Listing

restamp! broach marks have been replaced with file marks and they go the wrong way.

**Donald O.** · September 20, 2010, 11:25 AM

Re: "Matching Numbers" Stamp Pad From Ebay Listing

Originally posted by Steven Snyder (47742)

They tell me I'm a pretty fart smeller

pretty?????

**John S.** · September 20, 2010, 02:12 PM

Re: "Matching Numbers" Stamp Pad From Ebay Listing

As I said earlier I am not an expert. That being said, I have some problems with this being a "factory grind out". First, If you look back in the archives at other known factory grind outs, it does not look like those. Second, since when did the factory do the grind outs with the heads off? Look very closely at the picture and you will see those grind marks go right up to the head. (Probably underneath) There is no indication that the head was hit. I know there are guys out there that have seen way more pads then me (including grind outs) Whats your opinions?

BTW Why did this post re-emerge from Jan 09?

**Rich P.** · September 20, 2010, 02:43 PM

Re: "Matching Numbers" Stamp Pad From Ebay Listing

Originally posted by John Seeley (48993)

As I said earlier I am not an expert. That being said, I have some problems with this being a "factory grind out". First, If you look back in the archives at other known factory grind outs, it does not look like those. Second, since when did the factory do the grind outs with the heads off? Look very closely at the picture and you will see those grind marks go right up to the head. (Probably underneath) There is no indication that the head was hit. I know there are guys out there that have seen way more pads then me (including grind outs) Whats your opinions?

BTW Why did this post re-emerge from Jan 09?

John,

If I am following the thinking here correctly the restamp was done at tonawanda not at st louis. it was the build code that was incorrect not the vin. If that is the case this is the first engine plant restamp I have seen. The factory/st louis restamps for vins that I have seen just grind out the vin # and reastamp it not the entire pad.

Rich

**Greg R.** · September 20, 2010, 02:48 PM

Re: "Matching Numbers" Stamp Pad From Ebay Listing

The phrase "matching numbers" or "numbers matching" have done much harm to the collector car market over the past 20 years. I have had conversations with some fairly high priced car owners and they sound like a broken record when claiming that their car is "numbers matching".
If I dare to state/ask..." Yep, got that point. May I ask, is that the engine that was attached to the car when it rolled down the assembly line ?", there is silence and sometimes lies..never have I been told, NOPE, the numbers match because I (or previous owner) restamped them to match...
You will hear the announcers on the TV car auctions proclaim..."and its of course a numbers matching car " All is good in the world !! But then again, the announcers on those shows are for a seperate discussion for another day.
Sorry for the rant...

**Richard E.** · September 21, 2010, 02:39 PM

Re: "Matching Numbers" Stamp Pad From Ebay Listing

If the pad in question was IP code(427/425hp) the factory made several mistakes.First they put a 4 bolt main engine in and then stamped the code
correctly IP.Then decided they needed a 2 bolt main 390 car but for some reason had to grind off the assembly date and vin.The stamping actually
doesn't look bad so one would wonder if someone was going to restamp
an engine(not factory) why they wouldn't take a belt sander to it first instead of a rat tail file...

**Edward M.** · September 22, 2010, 09:22 AM

Re: "Matching Numbers" Stamp Pad From Ebay Listing

Originally posted by John Seeley (48993)

Second, since when did the factory do the grind outs with the heads off? Look very closely at the picture and you will see those grind marks go right up to the head. (Probably underneath) There is no indication that the head was hit.

My guess is that the factory did grind outs of the suffix code with the head off on big blocks for the same reason they stamped the suffix code on big blocks with the head off.

Interference with the plug inserted in the end of the head.

**Gene M.** · September 22, 2010, 09:53 AM

Re: "Matching Numbers" Stamp Pad From Ebay Listing

Originally posted by John Seeley (48993)

As I said earlier I am not an expert. That being said, I have some problems with this being a "factory grind out". First, If you look back in the archives at other known factory grind outs, it does not look like those. Second, since when did the factory do the grind outs with the heads off? Look very closely at the picture and you will see those grind marks go right up to the head. (Probably underneath) There is no indication that the head was hit. I know there are guys out there that have seen way more pads then me (including grind outs) Whats your opinions?
John,

If I am following the thinking here correctly the restamp was done at tonawanda not at st louis. it was the build code that was incorrect not the vin. If that is the case this is the first engine plant restamp I have seen. The factory/st louis restamps for vins that I have seen just grind out the vin # and reastamp it not the entire pad.

Rich

BTW Why did this post re-emerge from Jan 09?

John and Rich hit the nail right on the head. Both have good reasoning and observed the pad in an analytical way. I don't care what Al G. says about this pad. All evidence points to a non typical production and does not follow normal known assembly sequence of build and assembly. Both Rich and John stated the facts.
I would not consider this pad machining and stampings original to the Corvette it is in. My vote restamp.

"Matching Numbers" Stamp Pad From Ebay Listing

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