Chevrolet Styling/Engineering Tag

[Tyler T.]

Re: Chevrolet Styling/Engineering Tag

Uncalled for...............maybe, but I get so frustrated when I read statements that I know are conjecture and not fact, but are stated as gospel truth.

In a conversation with Jim Minniker several years ago about these very cars I asked him about a specific car and was advised engineering kept track of the units by P number and that was what he needed to pull information about a specific car. Since the sticker posted did not have a number starting with a P as the two I posted do with the word engineering on them I speculate that unit was not an engineering/prototype car.

The document below indicates that the car was classified as an engn'd car but also note cars before s/n 40 were classified as prototypes. The 89 ZR-1 s/n 4 I found in S. Fla 3 yers ago with less than 300 miles had no sticker but had been used by a certified tech school to train ZR-1 mechanics in the early mid 90s.

http://www.deliquescence.net/~tyler/prototype/87_89production.jpg

In any case it is up to the reader to read what is presented and make up his own mind about what is conjecture and what is fact. I have done a lot of research on the 88-89 ZR-1s and am always willing to learn more.

Tyler

[Art A.]

Re: Chevrolet Styling/Engineering Tag

In a conversation with Jim Minniker several years ago about these very cars I asked him about a specific car and was advised engineering kept track of the units by P number and that was what he needed to pull information about a specific car. Since the sticker posted did not have a number starting with a P as the two I posted do with the word engineering on them I speculate that unit was not an engineering/prototype car.

The document below indicates that the car was classified as an engn'd car but also note cars before s/n 40 were classified as prototypes. The 89 ZR-1 s/n 4 I found in S. Fla 3 yers ago with less than 300 miles had no sticker but had been used by a certified tech school to train ZR-1 mechanics in the early mid 90s.

http://www.deliquescence.net/~tyler/prototype/87_89production.jpg

In any case it is up to the reader to read what is presented and make up his own mind about what is conjecture and what is fact. I have done a lot of research on the 88-89 ZR-1s and am always willing to learn more.

Tyler

Well Tyler there you go again...............spectulating. The FACT is that ALL Chevrolet Engineering/CPC FLEET vehicles, which includes regular production, COPO's, prototype, pilot, show, etc, ( drive able,IE road worthy) vehicles were assigned a Company car vehicle number and a "company" car folder was created and received a little blue or red decal in the lower driver side windshield area.

Jim Minniker and I were not only colleagues at Engineering , but we were associated with the NCM long before a shovel was ever turned. Jim is a great engineer, but I know his knowledge of the DETAILS of the record keeping system was not his area of expertise.

[Eric J.]

Re: Chevrolet Styling/Engineering Tag

Speculation or not I appreciate the information. My intention was not to hijack this thread. I thought the 9 = 89 and I thought 110 was a sequence. I still don't know what the PR stands for. I do know the LA Times used the car for a week in 5/1989 to review the new ZR-1.

[William C.]

Re: Chevrolet Styling/Engineering Tag

Mark, I have seen one of those tags on a vehicle that was reworked inside Chevrolet engineering for a "show car" the tag had stamped on it "special paint and trim by Chevrolet Engineering" or words to that effect. The car had no body or engine modifications, just exterior paint and some trim items. Was sold in the company car fleet sale, bought by an employee. This was in 1964. Starting about 1966 or 67 after the government started leaning on the auto companies re safety and emissions, the sales of modified cars just about stopped if anything was altered other than a paint job. I ran a small Engineering fleet that was an extension of the GM Proving grounds in the early 80's and our testing was such that the cars could be (and were) returned to OEM configuration exactly before sale, or were crushed with one of my employees watching.

[Eric J.]

Re: Chevrolet Styling/Engineering Tag

Art, My Father was attended GMI later after he finished his degree at Michigan Tech (left because GMI did not have a EE program back then), briefly worked on the drive by wire auto pilot program in the 50's, of course cars had fins back then... Imagine no need to steer. Eric

[Art A.]

Re: Chevrolet Styling/Engineering Tag

Art:

In the lower right corner of this photo is the tag identified by www.mygaragemuseum.com as the Engineering Department tag found on the 1964 Styling Corvette.



Can you share some further information about Corvettes, which spent time in either the Engineering or Styling department and did not receive one of these tags. Could a vehicle be shipped from the St. Louis assembly plant to these departments in Michigan without paperwork /a specific work order ? And would a "work order" be the same as a "Build Work Order" ? And what would become of these vehicles when Styling or Engineering were done using them ?

I sincerely appreciate your insight into this issue.

Many thanks,
Mark

Mark, I just spent 3 hours creating a responce to this post and when I went to hit submit, it diappeared.............so, maybe I try tomorrow.

tosaytheleasti'mpi$$ed

[Mark R.]

Re: Chevrolet Styling/Engineering Tag

Mark, I have seen one of those tags on a vehicle that was reworked inside Chevrolet engineering for a "show car" the tag had stamped on it "special paint and trim by Chevrolet Engineering" or words to that effect. The car had no body or engine modifications, just exterior paint and some trim items. Was sold in the company car fleet sale, bought by an employee. This was in 1964. Starting about 1966 or 67 after the government started leaning on the auto companies re safety and emissions, the sales of modified cars just about stopped if anything was altered other than a paint job. I ran a small Engineering fleet that was an extension of the GM Proving grounds in the early 80's and our testing was such that the cars could be (and were) returned to OEM configuration exactly before sale, or were crushed with one of my employees watching.

Bill:

Thanks for sharing your experience relevant to this subject.

Mark

[Brad C.]

Re: Chevrolet Styling/Engineering Tag

Mark,, I have just posted my special tag. It is a copper tag rivitted to the frame behind the rear drivers wheel of a 63 s/w. It reads 'Test Lab 61". I've had the car stored since 86 and now want to investigate what Test lab 61 was. I feel you may have more expertise getting info and doing your own research than some. What is your opinion of this tag? Sn # is 101 and it has some items not found on Production cars. I need to get a pic online.

Thanks
Brad Cook (51274)

[Chuck S.]

Re: Chevrolet Styling/Engineering Tag

...I just spent 3 hours creating a responce to this post and when I went to hit submit, it diappeared...

I know just what you mean...that same thing has happened to me several times.

I think our Big NCRS Brother is watching every letter we type on a real-time monitor and is preapproving submissions even before we finish typing. If a post doesn't measure up to the "peace and brotherhood" standard, it gets "zapped" before it's submitted, causing the author to have to laboriously recreate it. You have to really want to say that stuff.

Or, not...Maybe it's just bad karma. Only kidding.

[Gary C.]

Re: Chevrolet Styling/Engineering Tag

Chuck, what have you been smokin' lately? If the moderators did as you kiddingly suggest about 1/3~1/4 of the posts would be zapped. Moderators rely upon other TDB Member's complaints. Gary....

[Chuck S.]

Re: Chevrolet Styling/Engineering Tag

Chuck, what have you been smokin' lately? If the moderators did as you kiddingly suggest about 1/3~1/4 of the posts would be zapped. Moderators rely upon other TDB Member's complaints. Gary....

Gary, I was only kidding Art...in fact I said as much.

But, it has happened to me...long posts have just disappeared in a flash, and the back arrow won't bring them back. Conspiracy is the quick, easy answer, but it's usually because I hit some wierd combination of keys that are shortcuts to oblivion.

[Dick W.]

Re: Chevrolet Styling/Engineering Tag

Mark, I just spent 3 hours creating a responce to this post and when I went to hit submit, it diappeared.............so, maybe I try tomorrow.

tosaytheleasti'mpi$$ed

The same thing has happened to me several times on several boards using v-bulletin software. Here, Vetteheads, and a few others. I don't know what happens. If I am creating a very detailed post or reply I now compose it in Word and then cut and paste to the forum. That way if it does not go thru, I still have the original to repost from.

[Tyler T.]

Re: Chevrolet Styling/Engineering Tag

The same thing has happened to me several times on several boards using v-bulletin software. Here, Vetteheads, and a few others. I don't know what happens. If I am creating a very detailed post or reply I now compose it in Word and then cut and paste to the forum. That way if it does not go thru, I still have the original to repost from.

Amen to doing it offline and pasting it in. The software times out at some point and its gone.

Tyler

[Dick W.]

Re: Chevrolet Styling/Engineering Tag

Amen to doing it offline and pasting it in. The software times out at some point and its gone.

Tyler

OK, I have wondered what was causing it to disappear.

[Mark R.]

Re: Chevrolet Styling/Engineering Tag

Brad:

I would love to see the copper Test Lab 61 tag you mention; please post it so we can see it..

I'm sure once the photo is posted you will receive feedback from members with relevant knowledge.

Looking forward to seeing your tag.

Mark