Judging Broach Marks

[Kenneth B.]

The threads about decked blocks got me wandering after some of the posts. What dose the machined pad have to look like to get no deduction. Is there a standard or is this up to the judges whim. If the stamped characters are correct what dose it matter that someone took sanding paper to a rusty pad,machine shop rework/factory rework ETC. I know that I will hear the factory typical speak but I believe that there was enough evidence that where the pad surface is concerned no one can say what is right. Deep lines, light lines or almost no lines I think NCRS should take another look at this. I think that NCRS is getting scary close to it not being about the Corvettes but about what the master judges think thy know. I am afraid that We walk a fine line between how the were & the Cookie cutter restorations by the book which keep changing. I see we have our 50,000th member which is great. I hope that the younger people that were not around when the cars were new will realize that Corvettes were just job #'s built like any other car & SH*T happened to keep the line running.
KEN

[Jim D.]

Re: Judging Broach Marks

Very well said Ken. I agree 100%.

Jim

[Kenneth B.]

Re: Judging Broach Marks

Very well said Ken. I agree 100%.

Jim

JIM
THANKS May be because I was there in the day & have been to too many Al Grenning seminars that I am a grumpy old man.
KEN

[Terry M.]

Re: Judging Broach Marks

You saw the movie, right?

Cheer up Ken. It is not as bad as you think. Trust us, we know what we are doing. At least we are not calling for change.

[Chris F.]

Re: Judging Broach Marks

Could someone please post photos so I can see the difference.

[Joe G.]

Re: Judging Broach Marks

Chris,
I think you might find some more in the archives, but I will throw mine out there as a guinea pig. Car has never been judged and I don't know too much about broach marks. Original engine, block not surfaced.

Before and After Rebuild.
Joe
71 454

[Harmon C.]

Re: Judging Broach Marks

Have you owned this car from 1971? I would like to see the pad in person as the pictures tell me to take a closer look.

[Joe G.]

Re: Judging Broach Marks

Nope, I am the fifth owner. 84,000 miles.

[E S.]

Re: Judging Broach Marks

Hi all- On this subject-Are we sure the stamp pad area was unpainted from the factory?
If the area was painted at the factory,and the motor was left untouched,how could the "broach marks"be judjed on an all original car?(bowtie/spinner etc.)

[Terry M.]

Re: Judging Broach Marks

Hi all- On this subject-Are we sure the stamp pad area was unpainted from the factory?
If the area was painted at the factory,and the motor was left untouched,how could the "broach marks"be judjed on an all original car?(bowtie/spinner etc.)

You do have to bound the unpainted pads. I have seen the blue colored engines with painted pads, and there are some different judging issues there.

I have seen a lot of 1968-1972 original Corvettes (not necessarily spinners, whatever that means) and I have yet to see one with a painted pad, but I have learned to never say never.

You will have to speak to others about original Corvettes of other years.

[E S.]

Re: Judging Broach Marks

Terry-I may have asked my question prematurely,and if so, then I apologize.
I have a '69 that I ordered. Car has 5728 mi.Car has never been touched under the hood except for1 set of plugs,1 new air filter,and a few batterys.
Anyway-I'm pretty sure the whole engine is painted-even the stamp pad area-however, the car has been in storage for the most part since the mid 80's,when it received a gold cert. at Bloomington,and I haven't really paid that much attention to it. I'll go out to the storage tomorrow and check for sure.(I'll also check the odometer,as I can't remember the exact mileage)
I guess it just seems odd that the factory would go to the trouble to mask off the stamp pad,and then pretty much disregard alum. intakes,valve covers,exhaust man. etc. when the eng.was painted.
Thanks for your indulgence-EJ

[Terry M.]

Re: Judging Broach Marks

I guess it just seems odd that the factory would go to the trouble to mask off the stamp pad,and then pretty much disregard alum. intakes,valve covers,exhaust man. etc. when the eng.was painted.
Thanks for your indulgence-EJ

I am not quite sure what you mean. They did mask aluminum intakes from the orange paint, and on some engines painted the aluminum intakes aluminum color. Those valve covers that were chrome or cast aluminum were not supposed to be on the engine during the paint process. In some years the exhaust manifolds were not on the engine during the paint operation. And while this varied with they year of manufacture, it also varied with the engine assembly plant.

Now if you want to get into masking -- we should talk about aluminum head Mark IV engines and Tonawanda masking the heads.

[Michael W.]

Re: Judging Broach Marks

Could someone please post photos so I can see the difference.

You'd have to see a thousand different pictures to see examples of typical types of broach mark appearance. A big mistake made in evaluating stamp pads, both broach marks and stamps, is presuming that they all look alike.

Because of the huge variation many judges want to see a pad that LACKS features that could not have happened at the factory.

[Rob M.]

Re: Judging Broach Marks

EJ,

By no means am I an expert, but I have read many times that the stamp pad was painted (at least in '66) and that a line worker simply wiped the pad with a rag after painting. Some untouched pads still have a little orange paint hiding in the crevices of the numbers/letters. Why they did this, I have no idea.

FWIW - Rob

[Kenneth B.]

Re: Judging Broach Marks

EJ,

By no means am I an expert, but I have read many times that the stamp pad was painted (at least in '66) and that a line worker simply wiped the pad with a rag after painting. Some untouched pads still have a little orange paint hiding in the crevices of the numbers/letters. Why they did this, I have no idea.

FWIW - Rob

That would make sense. Cases were stamped before the heads were installed. I would think that the pad was either mask off with tape or wiped off after painting. If the paint was left on it would be hard to see the usage code on it when mated with the chassie.
KEN