Flight Judging

[Clark K.]

Guys, I have a question. But, first some background: I bought a '65 coupe last November and joined NCRS in January. So, all this is new to me. This is my very first Corvette and I plan on having it flight judged this year at the chapter meet and at the regional meet. The car has non-factory (two stage) paint so that will lose me originality points. I like the shiny paint and will not change it, so I am accepting the inevitable.

The car has five of what I believe to be old Western reproduction KO wheels, not the original Kelsey-Hayes KO wheels. I read the NCRS guide and it does not tell me how many points will be deducted for these wheels, which are obviously not original Kelsey-Hayes. I found a restored set of ORIGINALS for $12K, but this price seems way out of line.

Here is the question: Would I be better off buying some reproduction steel wheels and reproduction '65 wheel covers? Or, would I be better off just showing up with the Western wheels I now have on the car and taking the originality/condition deductions? -Clark

[Rob M.]

Re: Flight Judging

Hi Clark,

Welcome and congratulations on the purchase of your car!

Regarding your question, I would suggest considering the point to cost principle when looking at the wheels. Simply, how many points would you expect to loose vs. how would it cost to replace them all? I believe they are worth a total of 75 points (total condition and originality). So, is it worth it? Also, if you like the look of the Western KO's, why replace them? Drive the car to the meet and make up the points by driving there.

Just my 2 cents. Regardless, drive it and have fun.

Rob

[Bob D.]

Re: Flight Judging

I agree with Rob. If you like the KOs you have, leave them on the car and see how it judges. I would not make a lot of changes until after you have had your car judged. The judging sheets you receive from the meet will help you determine what to fix.

[David K.]

Re: Flight Judging

Leave it as is for your chapter meet judging and see how it shows. Then afterwards you can decided what is worth changing. A lot will depend on what you want to do with the car. If a Top Flight at a regional is your goal then you may already be there without any changes (you will know more after the chapter). If you are close there may be other cheaper things to do to get you more cushion (ie driving to the event as stated above). You will learn a lot at the chapter and I'm sure there will be some experienced judges present to give you guidance. If your goal is more lofty, you want that Duntov, then you may need to consider more corrections. It is your car so it is all up to you, there are no right or wrong choices.

[Gary J.]

Re: Flight Judging

Get the judging sheet and work on the operations part of the car. Most of those items are 25 pointers. If a couple of those didn't work you are already down 50 points and haven't gotten started good yet.

[John H.]

Re: Flight Judging

The "configuration" and "date" deduction for the reproduction wheels will still be less than ONE Operations failure; work on the Ops items and don't worry about the wheels.

[Jack H.]

Re: Flight Judging

Typically, when you encounter a car with older Western made KO's, they were NOT original to the car. Several things changed on these cars when optional KO wheels were part of the car's configuration and judges will check/verify those 'tell tale' aspects of the car.

Bottom line, if the wheels were added after the car shipped from the factory, the result is a FULL DEDUCTION for the item(s) affected. You'll find that judging policy in the Standard Deduction section of the NCRS Judging Reference Manual.

Now, if the car either was KO equipped (or 'appears' to have been KO equipped), the scoring guidance given in your copy of the 1965 Judging Guide applies. See Page 80, Exterior:

"Deduct 75% for reproduction wheels with correct finish, color, or configuration."

"Deduct 90% for reproduction wheels with incorrect finish, color or configuration."

The older Western made KO wheels are about as close as you can get to the factory original Kelsey wheels, so I'd expect the 75% deduction (originality) to apply.

Why so big a deduction? In earlier days, the deduction was only 10% or so. I think that policy encouraged restorers to change the configuation of their cars and put on reproduction KO wheels because it was significantly cheaper than acquiring correct steel wheels and properly restoring a set of matching wheel covers.

So, a LOT of cars (more than were originally made) began showing up on the judging field KO equipped. Hence, I believe the STIFF deduction policy was adopted to discourage owners from changing the factory original configuration of their cars...

On the $12K asking price for a set of original KH KO wheels, that's not out of line (in my mind) IF the wheels are truly in restored condition, ready to mount and show.

So, you're on the horns of a dilema here regarding what to do with your car: check the configuration of your car for tell tale evidence of its lack of optional KO equipment and (1) take the stiff deduction with your existing Western KO's, or (2) return it to factory stock configuration with steel wheels and matching wheel covers...