Matching numbers vs. non matching numbers.

[Karl K.]

Hello everyone,
We are going to be purchasing a mid year Corvette as an investment. I wanted to get
your opinions on a matching # car with no other documentation of the cars life compared to a non
matching # car that is equally as nice. We are going to look at a 66 bb that does
not have the original engine or transmission in it but has achieved NCRS Top Flight.
It would seem logical that a matching numbers car would be the better choice
but you always hear of fraud in this area.
Thank you for any advice,
Karl

[Michael W.]

Re: Matching numbers vs. non matching numbers.

Best give YOUR definition of what constitutes 'matching numbers' if you want advice that you can count on.

Ask ten people what matching numbers means and you'll get 12 answers.

[Jack C.]

Re: Matching numbers vs. non matching numbers.

Karl, it's a buyers market right now. I would narrow down what I am looking for and then get a Technical Information Manual and Judging Guide and learn from it as much as you can. Then, after you have done that, seek out someone from the Forum to help you out with an inspection of the potential candidate that you have in mind to purchase. With that said, there STILL is no guarantee of purchasing something that hasn't been tampered with. I think you can certainly turn the odds in your favor though.

[Gene M.]

Re: Matching numbers vs. non matching numbers.

Karl,
FIRST I need to define to you what I define as "matching numbers". Matching numbers is the original block, transmission and rearend that came in the car from GM in the year built. The stampings was done at GM in the year produced by a GM union worker.

"Matching numbers" is NOT a restamp made to look as original performed by an individual outside of GM sometime after the car was made.

The reason the stamping was originally done was to identify the exact same items that are only correct to that exact same car which they were originally assemblied to. Thus the VIN # is not an item I feel is subject to restoration.

So be advised that because the VIN#'s are all the same does not insure the car is "matching numbers". Be careful if you truly want an original car with "matching numbers" and not a car with created matching numbers.

[Jay G.]

Re: Matching numbers vs. non matching numbers.

Insist the owner clairfies what they mean by # Nos. Is it "Born With" matching nos. inferring it left the factory that way and the org components are still there and Intact. Or are there made up eBay parts w correct date codes etc. Only way to tell Somewhat? Is to view a number of cars and compare. A Real car will always Bring the $ no matter what the market. As real cars stands out like a sore thumb w/ no questions. Unfortunaly this comes w time and seeing a number of examples. To find the right car. The owner may express confidence and knowledge as to what they have. This is backed up by any inspections you insist necessary. They Balk walk away. Go see more cars and more cars.

[Duke W.]

Re: Matching numbers vs. non matching numbers.

There are very few cars that meet the definition of "investment", when you consider the costs of storage, insurance, maintenance, and repair liability.

Equities are a deal right now if you're a long term investor, and good traders can do very well in volatile markets.

Don't try to rationalize a vintage Corvette as an investment. It's a toy! But if you pick a good one, take good care of it, and don't drive it into the ground, it might provide years of enjoyment, and most of your cost will probably be recoverable when it comes time to divest.

Duke

[Zale P.]

Re: Matching numbers vs. non matching numbers.

Go for numbers matching... You will learn so much more by being a detective and learning where all the numbers and date codes are located all over the car.. Then I guess Al Grenning is the expert on seeing if a block has been re-stamped or not...

( Sherlock Holmes is my favorite detective.... ( thinking deductive reasoning on a 40 plus year old car is not easy )

I love to build my corvette library and keep learning about the midyears.

I have no interest YET in the newer corvettes...

Learning all these numbers and deciphering all these codes is the most fun I have had with my car...After 40 plus years there is no telling what has been done to a lot of these cars...

There is no touchier subject on these midyears than the engine stamp pad...

I agree with previous reply, ask 10 persons, and you get 12 answers..

Cheers,

Zale

[Steve B.]

Re: Matching numbers vs. non matching numbers.

Karl, many years ago matching numbers meant original. Nowadays with the advent of Barrett Jackson, Ebay, etc matching numbers now means just that and nothing more. It no longer means the original motor with its original stamping. If that is what you are after then take the time to learn the difference and go to as many NCRS meets and Bloomington Gold as possible and ask questions too. There are lots of great people here who will be happy to help you. When you decide to buy you should still hire an expert to look at the car for you. Good luck in your search.

[Jeff A.]

Re: Matching numbers vs. non matching numbers.

Karl,
I'm with Duke. Don't deceive yourself into thinking that you are making an investment in purchasing a Midyear (although that argument often works in selling the concept to a reluctant spouse ). If you hold on to the car for a long time, you may see some inflation adjusted appreciation (even after the expenses noted by Duke). However, you'll be amazed at how much you'll likely spend on improvements along the way. Bottom line - buy a car that you're not afraid to drive and that'll put a big smile on your face.
Good luck on your purchase!
Jeff
PS - Unless you are intimately familiar with Midyears, seriously consider having an expert verify the originality of any car you are considering before you pull the trigger. Ask around at your local NCRS chapter for someone qualified. The minimal fee you'll pay could save you BIG TIME in the long run.

[Tom M.]

Re: Matching numbers vs. non matching numbers.

There are very few cars that meet the definition of "investment", when you consider the costs of storage, insurance, maintenance, and repair liability.

Equities are a deal right now if you're a long term investor, and good traders can do very well in volatile markets.

Don't try to rationalize a vintage Corvette as an investment. It's a toy! But if you pick a good one, take good care of it, and don't drive it into the ground, it might provide years of enjoyment, and most of your cost will probably be recoverable when it comes time to divest.

Duke

Duke is right , buy the car to drive it and have some fun with it,
if in 5 or 10 years you sell it for more then you paid for it be happy

Tom

[Dale S.]

Re: Matching numbers vs. non matching numbers.

I disagree, I think my 67 in 1971 for 1500.00 was a good investment. Plus I got the fun of driving it. Dale

[Jeff A.]

Re: Matching numbers vs. non matching numbers.

I disagree, I think my 67 in 1971 for 1500.00 was a good investment. Plus I got the fun of driving it. Dale

Dale,
You're a lucky guy to have bought a Midyear when it was just a used car. Unfortunately (for buyers), the dynamics have changed! You've had the good fortune of being able to enjoy it for all those years - and that's priceless!
Jeff

[Edward M.]

Re: Matching numbers vs. non matching numbers.

If you are not extremely knowledgable about these cars, take someone with you who is. Get an accurate independent assessment of the car before you buy it.

[Paul J.]

Re: Matching numbers vs. non matching numbers.

Karl, many years ago matching numbers meant original. Nowadays with the advent of Barrett Jackson, Ebay, etc matching numbers now means just that and nothing more. It no longer means the original motor with its original stamping. If that is what you are after then take the time to learn the difference and go to as many NCRS meets and Bloomington Gold as possible and ask questions too. There are lots of great people here who will be happy to help you. When you decide to buy you should still hire an expert to look at the car for you. Good luck in your search.

Well said, Steve.

[Jim C.]

Re: Matching numbers vs. non matching numbers.

I'm certainly not a judge, or an expert, but can a car still achieve an NCRS Top Flight rating without its original block? I know transmissions aren't always judged very closely, but knowing the block is not original would leave me to think that the car is NOT "matching numbers" and therefore could NOT be Top Flight. I don't think it's Top Flight if someone did a great job of broaching and re-stamping the block. If I was looking for a true "matching numbers" car, I would not even consider this one. If I was looking for a mid year big block to just have fun with, and didn't care about the numbers, then maybe so. But I would not let the seller try to tell me it's a matching numbers car and then be expected to pay the premium such a car would demand. It's not a matching numbers car without the original block. That's just my opinion. Good luck with your decision.

Jim C.