A Bit Off Topic

[Jeff W.]

Re: A Bit Off Topic

It is very inspiring to hear all of your comments and your pride in our country. Very contagious! Wouldn't it be awesome to hear our congressmen and senators with this same kind of pride? lets hope 2010 brings some true Americans to those posts.
Jeff

[Duke W.]

Re: A Bit Off Topic

How in the world did the Navy sharpshooters make those kills? I only saw the computerized mockup on TV, and that life boat was bobbing and tilting like a cork on water on a windy day. And to think that all three fired simultaneously. Just amazing.

The key was the distance. In close quarters there is a possibility of harming the hostage, but I read one report that said the range was only 25 yards. A good marksman can make that shot with an iron-sighted pistol, but with a medium sniper rifle/night scope at that short range the chance of missing the target and harming the hostage is low even with the motion of the destoyer and lifeboat, and those SEALS are superbly trained marksman! Assuming a muzzle velocity of 2800 FPS it only took the bullets 27 milliseconds to make the distance, so windage and ballistic drop don't even enter into the equation.

And its critical that the local commander have discretionary authority to act, which apparently the President gave - to use whatever force is necessary to protect the hostage from harm and take advantage of any opportunities.

An observer was probably watching the targets as three other SEALS lined up on each of the pirates. Then the observer gave the order to fire and the three pirates were taken out in an instant simultaneously with head shots. With the kind of night vision technology we have such an operation at night is not much harder than in daylight.

Those guys are GOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!!!

What frosts me is talk of bringing the fourth pirate (who may be as little as 16 years old) to the US for trial. The taxpayers will pay millions to defend and incarcerate him. ...just turn him over to the Kenyans as we do with captured pirates who attack non-US flag ships.

Duke

[Terry M.]

Re: A Bit Off Topic

The sad part of bringing him to the USA is, short of the death penalty, he will live a better life at taxpayer's expense than he would have anyplace in Africa. At least until he finds Bubba as a bunkmate.

On a more serious note: I think it was the History Channel that had a show on the history and training of snipers. I was amazed at the rigor they go through. It is not uncommon for them to spend days getting the best position, time, and lighting for a single shot -- and that is all it takes: "One shot -- one kill" is their motto.

[Rich G.]

Re: A Bit Off Topic

I am not a gun guy, but some ex police officers I know are and they said they heard these rifles were "gyro stabilized". Never heard of that, but that doesn't mean much.

Also, the Navy Commander is from my hometown here on Long Island. He doesn't live here now, but his father does. News vans are in town this AM.

Rich

[Larry S.]

Re: A Bit Off Topic

I am not a gun guy, but some ex police officers I know are and they said they heard these rifles were "gyro stabilized". Never heard of that, but that doesn't mean much.

Also, the Navy Commander is from my hometown here on Long Island. He doesn't live here now, but his father does. News vans are in town this AM.

Rich

Rich, I just found out about the gyro stabilized rifles myself today. I'm no gun expert either but as I understand it once the gun sight locks onto a target then you can pull the trigger at any time thereafter, even if the rifle has moved somewhat. I suppose it's like those movies we see where the fighter planes lock onto a target with their missile.

[Duke W.]

Re: A Bit Off Topic

I am not a gun guy, but some ex police officers I know are and they said they heard these rifles were "gyro stabilized". Never heard of that, but that doesn't mean much.

Rich

I read some buzz about this on the Web, and one post attributed it to some news puke who probably had never even heard the term "sniper rifle" before this incident.

I've never heard of a "gyro stabilized" anything on a rifle (so maybe I'm just out of date), but systems to stabilize big guns on warships against pitch and roll have been around since before WW I.

The latest US military sniper rifle is known as M110. It appears somewhat like an M16 with a longer barrel, but is chambered for the 7.62 mm NATO round (7.62 x 51 mm also known as .308 Winchester in the civilian market). It can be fitted with a variety of scopes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M110_Semi-Automatic_Sniper_System

What differentiates a sniper rifle from a general purpose infantry rifle (other than the scope/sighting system) is greater accuracy as measured by "minutes of arc" (MOA) deviation from true aim. This is accomplishd primarily by tighter barrel dimensional tolerances, and larger rounds than 5.56 mm NATO provide greater accuracy at extended ranges.

At 25 yards a well trained marksman with a sniper rifle should be able do groups well under one inch diameter on a range. Movement of the platform and target might expand group size somewhat, but they'd still be small enough for a high probability single lethal head shot at that range.

Duke

[Patrick H.]

Re: A Bit Off Topic

At 25 yards a well trained marksman with a sniper rifle should be able do groups well under one inch diameter on a range. Movement of the platform and target might expand group size somewhat, but they'd still be small enough for a high probability single lethal head shot at that range.

Duke

That'd be a rookie. I can do that with a .22 pistol at 25 yards.
With a rifle he should be able to do that at 100 yards - I can. I suspect they do much better.

Patrick

[Duke W.]

Re: A Bit Off Topic

Yeah, I think one inch is about right at 100 yards with a 1 MOA error rifle. At 25 yards the error is about the same as caliber! The rest of any error is the ability of the marksman to hold the reticle on the target.

We'll probaby never know how much the shots were complicated by platform and target motion, but I doubt if the commander would have given the order to fire if there was a signficant probability of harming the hostage.

Those guys are superbly trained to handle this exact situation.

Duke

[Richard B.]

Re: A Bit Off Topic

Begin forwarded message:
From: "Maersk Arkansas - 1st Engineer" <013ARKAN1AE@MLLFLEET.COM>
Date: April 10, 2009 14:13:56 CDT
To: <SUSIEQUINTANA@COMCAST.NET>, "\"KEN\" " <KENQ45@OPTONLINE.NET>, "\"KC QUINTANA\" " <MYSTEMULITE@GMAIL.COM>, "\"KBEHEN\" " <KBEHEN@D1MEBA.ORG>, "\"DAWN TIPPETT\" " <DAWN.TIPPETT@GMAIL.COM>, "\"NATALIE RIVERA\" " <NATALIE.ANN.RIVERA@GMAIL.COM>, "\"TERRY\" " <TMURK@DERBYTECH.NET>
Subject: The Alabama Facts
This is an email I received from the first engineer and the guy I used to
live with. It is more accurate than you will read in any paper.
Thank you,
Greg Quintana
First Assistant Engineer
MV Maersk Arkansas
013ARKAN1AE@MLLFLEET.COM

-----Original Message-----
From: Maersk Alabama - Master [mailto:%ALAB\ 014ALABAMA%@MLLFLEET.COM]
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 1:58 PM
To: Maersk Arkansas - 1st Engineer
Subject: from Matt Fisher
Hey Greg,
Everyone on here is okay. We're on our way to Mombasa with Navy
protection on board. Captain Phillips is still hostage in the lifeboat with
the 4 pirates. I hear they're flying out reliefs for everyone, but I'm not
sure what all's going to happen once we get to Mombasa . Supposedly the FBI
is coming out to investigate the crime. Maybe we'll be on the next CSI
Somalia. I wanted to let you know some of the lessons we learned so you
guys can better prepare yourselves for something similar. The only guys
actually captured by the pirates were on the bridge: Capt, 3/M, and 2 AB's.
I don't really know why they stayed on the bridge until the pirates got up
there. Then they had keys to everything and were able to unlock everyone's
rooms. The pirates got up to the bridge very quickly once they were
onboard. We had a locked cage door over the ladder well from main deck, but
it only took a second for them to shoot it off. They then got to the bridge
up the outside ladders. By that time we had taken control of the engine and
steering down below. Mike stayed in the ECR and the C/M was out on deck
tracking the pirates' movement. We kept swinging the rudder side to side.
The pirates' boat capsized, though I'm not sure exactly when or what caused
it. After about 20 minutes the engine was killed, I don't know by whom. At
that point I shut off the air bottles and Mike killed power. He was also
able to get outside and trip the fuel shutoff for the EDG. I think this was
critical. The pirates were very reluctant to go into the dark. We will be
looking at a way to shut off the EDG from the ECR in the future. All the
crew had been mustered and secured in the steering gear. Our pirates didn't
have any grenades, so they would have never been able to break in there.
The previous day we had welded a padeye on the inside of the hatch to the
fantail so it was secured from the inside. The only problem with the
steering gear was the heat and the shortage of water. In the future we will
store food and water in various spots for emergency usage. I think we will
also run a fresh water line into the steering gear. We were able to make a
run from the steering gear to the E/R water fountain and fill up some empty
oil sample bottles we had back there. The C/M was also able to get some
fruit and sodas from the galley and drop them down the line standpipe. The
pirates sent the 3/M unescorted to go look for crewmembers, so he was able
to get away. One of the pirates then went with an AB down to the E/R to
look for people. Mike was able to jump him in the dark and we took him
prisoner in the steering gear. No one else came down into the E/R. As the
day went on the pirates became desperate to get out of there. There boat
was sunk, and they couldn't get our ship moving. The Captain talked them
into taking the MOB boat. The three remaining pirates went down in the MOB
boat with Phillips. We were then able to negotiate with them over the
radio. We dropped some food, water and diesel to them. We started getting
the plant back on line. Unfortunately, the MOB boat wouldn't start. A
couple of guys got in the lifeboat and dropped it. They motored over and
traded the lifeboat for the MOB boat. We were supposed to exchange their
guy for the Captain, but they ended up keeping him. They motored off in the
lifeboat. They had no way of getting back aboard, so we followed them. The
Navy showed up a few hours later. We stayed close by for some time, but
then the Navy asked us to head out. I heard that several other pirate
vessels were heading our way and the Navy wanted us out of the way. That's
about it. I'll give you all the details some other time. Just to reiterate
the most important points:
Have a well fortified location with food and water supply.
Kill all the lights.
Leave the alarms going, the noise helped cover our movements through the
house.
Flashlights and radios are very handy, as well as the sound-powered phone.
Anyway, it was a pretty stressful situation. I have to say I am impressed
with how the entire crew responded. We didn't have anybody who wanted to
give up. I'm pretty confident that Phillips will end up ok. They have to
know that if they kill him they'll be done. I assume the company will be
forced into taking some kind of action to assure our security from now on.
Hope everything is going well there. I'll talk to you later.
Matt