63 fuelie starting problems

[Rainer S.]

I have a 63 fulie. Car was running good, but have developed a problem with the car not wanting to start back up, when engine is warm.
After running the car for a while, engine is running smooth and strong. After I turn-off the engine, the car will not start back up after a short wait (few min).
After 1/2 hour, still won't start. Could it be my cold start valve ? How can test the cold start valve (I don't have a spare).
Or could it be something else ?
Will try again after a few hours, but I am getting nervous, only 2 weeks to have it judged. Hate to have it not start then so I need to get it fixed.

Rainer

[Rainer S.]

Re: 63 fuelie starting problems

I think, I just found the answer to my problem.
I read " similar posts" below the posting, where a 59 fuelie thread about the warm start problems were discussed.
I tried it the suggestions, and it works!
Apparantly, I was trying to restart the warm engine, like a cold engine, leaving the throttle closed. (I was told in the past never to pump the gas pedal upon starting a fuelie)
I just now tried to restart the car (engine still warm), by opening the throttle 1/3 to 1/2 way and voila! engine starts OK.
So, cold engine, pump once to set baffle, start cranking until engine fires, then open throttle.
Warm engine: open throttle 1/3 to 1/2 way, start cranking until engine fires. Got it !
(but i will still get a spare cold start valve for the glove box)

Rainer

[Paul Y.]

Re: 63 fuelie starting problems

When you say cold start valve are you talking about the cranking signal valve? It if always starts cold and is reluctant to start warm, I would think that it is the fuel quality. I have been driving my 63 fuely since 4/23/09 almost daily and I am running no lead premium from just about any station with out too much of an issue. The fuel boils out when hot and has a little lean period when restarted hot but not a real big issue as the system has a loop in the spider for overflow and it recirculates the fuel fairly soon after start. The early ones don't have this loop so they are more prone to hot restart problems. I also custom made up an insulator that I have installed under the spider to help eleviate heat soak and I could tell you about it but it will not pass judging. Just put in some high octane race fuel and you should be alright for judging if it is not a mechanical problem. Be sure also to check your timing and dwell first as it usually is the problem before the injection. Paul

[John D.]

Re: 63 fuelie starting problems

Ranier, You just about solved the problem yourself by reading the posts here.
But try this for easier starting. When the engine is warm or hot just smash the accel pedal to the floor and hold the key in the start position until the engine fires. In hot weather like now once the car starts you may have to goose the gas pedal so as to get some cold fuel in the FI.

Try some 100LL avaiation fuel to bypass this problem or to at least improve the condition. My 63, the LWC just loves the 100LL and will sit and idle in 90 degree heat without any difficulty.

Open the hood to let the heat out when the engine is hot.
Since your engine is freshly rebuilt try idling it faster until it's time to get the ops done. More fuel pressure that way.
Tell me about your Cranking signal valve. Original. Repro , rebuilt original. Your goal is to have an original rebuilt and carry a spare. Original valves have three distinctive crimps on the back side of the cover.
To test to see if the CSV is going out or is on the way put a longer piece of rubber hose between the CSV and the vacuum line. Start the engine and clamp the hose shut. That takes the CSV out of the system so you can determine is it s bad without doing anything else. JD

[Rainer S.]

Re: 63 fuelie starting problems

Thanks for the info,
I know, the timing and ign settings are OK, since I had that checked and adjusted by Werner Maier not long ago.
It all started, when I installed the ign cover for the first time.
It would not restart, due to a shorting problem, which I eliminated.
(Cover was touching the coil connections, upon installing.)
I flooded the engine, when I cranked it too long. Removed the cover, restarted, but still no luck.
Had to remove all SS shielding to replace the sparkplugs with a set of new once. Started right away, but when installing the cover again, had the same shorting problem. I know for sure that it was shorting, because I left the engine running, while installing the cover, to be sure. (John, I used your tick using a file folder between cover and doghouse)
When the cover was almost on, the engine cut out, and would not re-start.
That's when I got the answer from the forum, to open the throttle, when restarting the engine.
Now, that I know, what I was doing wrong, I will adhere to the different cold/hot restart procedures. Amazing, how much I still learn about this car, from the forum.
That brings on another question:
When taking the car to the judging event, does the coil cove have to be installed and then removed for the judges, or can it be left off ?
(I am planning to have it installed.)

Rainer

[John D.]

Re: 63 fuelie starting problems

Rainer. Leave the poc Distributor cover-shielding off the car. Worst thing ever invented. My 63, the LWC hasn't had that cover on in 30 years and never will. One of the first things the judging chairman tells you is to remove the distributor shield, etc.
Coil. With the coil properly installed the judges cannot read the 12V 091. So unloosen the slotted screw and turn the coil so it can be read. But be careful. Don't forget to turn it back where it should be after the show incase you decide you are going to install the shield again as failure to do so will result in a major short.
Coil must be installed. The judges can see the numbers if you turn it.
Story: Old Jerry Bramlett and JD both agree 100% that if a customer installs his distr shield and complains of engine missfires,etc the boy is on his own. Good luck at the show. John

[Rainer S.]

Re: 63 fuelie starting problems

Thanks, John and Paul.
I will pull off the cover again to check, if I can read the numbers and turn the coil to suit. I agree, the cover was not the best GM design... But it looks cool. I will take a pic before I remove it.
Car starts in cold and warm now and does not miss with cover installed.
we'll see what happens...

Rainer

[Gerald C.]

Re: 63 fuelie starting problems

My fuelie has been sitting for about a month and when it was running, I didn't have a problem at all. I tried to start it today and it wouldn't start. I pressed the pedal until the choke kicked in and didn't touch the pedal again. Yet, the car just cranks over and doesn't start at all. I even tried a little starting fluid and still nothing. The unit was completely rebuilt and as I said, it ran great this summer.

Thoughts?

Thanks

Jerry

[Hugh G.]

Re: 63 fuelie starting problems

Having the same problem with my 1964 unit. My unit was starting and running great but the high pressure pump seal started to leak. I repaired the high pressure pump seal (and shaft). It started fine the first time but the high pressure to spider line fitting was leaking and before I could get around to kill the engine, it died. It would not restart with the accelerator down to the floor. Let it set two days and it started (without starting fluid) but died (like I turned the key off) within 30 seconds. Again it would not restart!! Let is set for a couple of days again thinking the engine was being flooded by the FI unit. This time it did not even try to start, starting fluid and all. I may was washed my plugs so I'm installing a spare set of C46s (the heat range recommended by John D). I'll keep an eye on this thread in hopes your fix is mine too. At least the high pressure seal has not leaked yet!! Thank in advance. Hugh

[John D.]

Re: 63 fuelie starting problems

Hi Hugh, One correction. I did not recommend C 46S plugs. Close to what we talked about though. The "S" stand for extended tip. They may come dangerously close to hitting the pistons. Now we used to talk here about indexing plugs to avoid this. Not sure.
Anyhow you need the straight 46 without the S.
The 7380 unit is a very fast starting fuel injection. Hows the micro switch. The starting solenoid. The ignition coil. Repro or original or ???

Get a helper. Disconnect a nozzle line to a nozzle. Hold the line above a small container. Tell your helper to turn key to start position. Does gas squirt out the line into the can? Nice healthy spray? Or just fizzle out a tad. This crude test tells you a lot. If the gas doesn't come pouring out of the line then FI problems.
Drive cable. Leave the pesky housing off for now. Just use the bare drive cable. Making sure you have contact going into the distributor. Eliminate that question in your mind. Now you rebuilt the hi-pressure pump. hmmmm. After you cover all the easy stuff here's one for your Hugh. The pump has a spacer in it. Wraps around the gear. THe spacer has a big hold on one side. If you put the spacer on backwards the hole will be pointing up in the air. Car will never run for crap. The hole has to be facing the floor. For the pump to pick up gas in fuel bowl.
Keep that in mind.
Is the gas fresh? If not then expect issues with the FI unit. Stuck anti-siphon valve. Clogged filter under the spill valve. None of the above easy to fix. I didn't go back and read all the other posts.

You should have called me Hugh.

[Hugh G.]

Re: 63 fuelie starting problems

Sorry John, the "'s' was for plural not part of the ID. Trust me I will be calling. I'm waiting for a my copy of an ST-12 manual before actually starting on working on the unit. I have all the other parts/products you recommended and of course the holidays are over so I'm running out of excuses. Happy New Year. Hugh

[Gerald C.]

Re: 63 fuelie starting problems

Okay. Problem solved......the fuel meter cable broke! Next question...do I put any lubricant in the cable housing before installing the new cable? If so, which type is recommended? I couldn't find that information in the repair manual.

Thanks

Jerry

[John D.]

Re: 63 fuelie starting problems

[QUOTE=Gerald Coia (11656);792568]Okay. Problem solved......the fuel meter cable broke! Next question...do I put any lubricant in the cable housing before installing the new cable? If so, which type is recommended? I couldn't find that information in the repair manual.

Thanks

Jerry, No wonder the cable broke. Disc brake wheel bearing grease. "any brand will do". As much as possible. Now don't go using a hi-pressure grease gun to fill the housing up as it would ouzo out put time. Now there is better grease than that as recommended by Duke and others but my recommendation will work. Midyears are tough as far as the drive cable housing goesd. Hard part to install on a show car without scratching things up. Put some grease on the o'ring at the front of the housing. Then with cable in the housing and in the pump shaft then next thing to do is this.
Push the housing up into the pump as far as it will go.
Then install the cable into the distributor cross shaft by turning it for alignment. If you have one of the improved drive cables where the stop has been moved for more catch into the distributor then that's a plus but not a requirement.
Next pull the housing up against the distributor. Now put on the knurled nut. With you HAND. No pliars as your wrench up the expensive knurled nut.

At least yours is running. Now to get Hugh's running.

[John D.]

Re: 63 fuelie starting problems

Hugh. Yesterday in my rush I confused your unit with a 64-65. Sorry about that. Hows the cranking signal valve? John D.

[Gerald C.]

Re: 63 fuelie starting problems

John,

Did all that and the housing went in easy. The only tough part is lining up the cable into the distributor. Then I hand tightened the knurled nut> All is good in the world now!

Jerry