I was thinking it would be great to have a reference paper or booklet that would list, show, and describe all the different fasteners by GM part number that are listed in the various AIMs. Before I explore that further, is there such a reference document out there?
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Re: Fastener Identification
Michael,
I think I saw something like that in my parts book
I'll check & get back to you.
Francis
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Re: Fastener Identification
Michael,
Something like this? That section (8.9xx) in any Parts Catalog is very hard to find and usually not included. Been looking for that Section for a while myself. Think someone has part of this stuff in a PDF just not sure who.Comment
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Re: Fastener Identification
I'm sure there are many of us who have a bucket full of screws, nuts and bolts that came off our Corvettes over the years. There is also a number of us who dig into a job and maybe bag and label all the screws and bolts that come out of a certain area thinking we'll remember exactly which ones came from where only to find our memories aren't as good as we thought they were a week later. Was it this 1" chrome pan head or that 1 1/4" black phosphated flat head that went there?
I can refer to the AIM for a part number but that really doesn't help much. I often try to locate the same part number in a different section of the AIM and then go to the car and compare, but that doesn't always work.
I was thinking of maybe taking on a long term project to list all the fasterner numbers in the AIM and then describe and photograph each one. I just didn't want to start something that was already available.Comment
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Re: Fastener Identification
That resource is NOT available. But, what you suggest doing is a MIND BOGGLING task.
Why? Well sometimes a given GM P/N for a fastener details a wide variety of acceptable alternatives (specific head configuration, specific tip style, finish, Etc.) under which MANY different suppliers were probably qualified. Who was qualified with what particular PN (in their specific drawing system) was dynamic, changing over time.
A person who'd purchase the kind of reference book you describe, isn't really interested in all that detail. He/she wants to know what's 'right' and 'factory original' for their specific car. That depends on two things:
(1) Who's doing the judging on a given day and what his/her knowledge profile is.
(2) The random luck of the draw regarding what fastener source(s) a given St. Louis purchasing agent had contracted with to keep inventory bins in the factory full, and which fastener came out of the 'bucket' when a specific UAW worker reached in to build that specific car.
You can devote a LOT of research time REAL fast and never achieve the end objective. Plus, screw machines wore out at the various supplier plants and were repaired/replaced. So, there's another issue of which specific version of supplier's part XYZ are we talking about?
Just look at a typical 'anchor head' fastener. There are probably 4-5 variations of it (anchor above the line, anchor below the line, anchor bisecting the line, thickness of anchor, size of anchor, Etc...). The task you propose seems intractable to me.Comment
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Re: Fastener Identification
It would be an excellent resource and it seems that NCRS could improve quality of judging by having this resource vs. relying on "who" does it that dayComment
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Re: Fastener Identification
That's a noble idea but cant work because of early-mid-late units. Other wise all Corvettes would become generic look a likes .I've seen bolts holding the male hood latch use E, TR, WB and so on for C1 Corvettes.
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Re: Fastener Identification
The quality of judging is improved by having judges that have actually seen enough cars in their year class of interest to KNOW which fasteners and headstamps were typically used for each application. If an owner installs a zinc plated Home Depot chinabolt in a place where a black phosphate M, A, et al headstamp should be, he will experience "quality of judging". On the other hand, if another common GM headstamp is used, then the difference will be the knowledge level that Jack mentioned...a worthy judge typically credits his lack of specific knowledge to the owner's credit.
This implies that the best judges have actually done careful restoration of the year class being judged and have noted and recorded the applications of the different type fasteners and headstamps...OR, their interest has been keen enough and focused enough over years of association with the year class to have picked up those details that the typical enthusiast "glosses" over.
Typically, the time available for judging each car and the number of specifics to be judged is such that there is not even time to continuously consult the judging manual, let alone other voluminous reference books. If such a reference were to be compiled, it COULD improve the quality of judging INDIRECTLY by improving the quality of restorations, and the knowledge base of those restorers that become judges.
In my opinion, a comprehensive fastener reference for ALL Corvette year classes would be an impossible undertaking. If such an endeavor just limited the reference to ONE year class, or even just one model year, it would be a significant challenge considering the potential variation in headstamps and specifications during each production year.Comment
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Re: Fastener Identification
Anything is possible with enough time and money, just ask the Federal govenment
Agree that Home Depot bolt should be weeded out fairly quickly by judging. Just seems that after reading hundreds of threads of asking which bolt or fastener is correct that there is fair amount of interest and maybe over time the library would be built up with dozens of variations that exist. From an amateur restorer pov at best, just some basics would be great starting pointComment
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Re: Fastener Identification
My thought was not to develop a supplement to the Judging Guide but to have a reference document so that I don’t rely on memory or a repo supplier to get the right bolt or screw in the right hole.
For example, you take all the bumpers and bumper brackets off your 1969 Coupe to have them refinished. You bag all the bolts and mark them "front" & "rear" bumper bolts. You get the bumpers back a few weeks later and now those marked bags look a little more intimidating than you thought they would be. You look at the AIM and there are part numbers and the assembly pictures but what is the difference between a 9419075 bolt that goes in the center brace assembly and the 9419077 bolt that that screws into the bumper guard? They all look the same AIM in the drawing.
Or who hasn’t purchased an Interior Screw Set with all the individually packaged and numbered screws. They give you a card with a package number, a description, and where it goes. Great stuff, but the next time you dig into the dash you are looking at a pile of screws again, but this time no package numbers and no descriptions.
That is the type of reference document I’m thinking about. Initially it could just cover GM part numbers, a size and finish description, and a picture. If there are known head markings that could be included. Later, a location reference could be added, maybe just an AIM page number where it’s referenced for each year. Did you know that the 3847757 screw/bolt on page 153 used to mount the seat is also used to secure the front bumper corner reinforcement on page 245?
Has anyone else used an on-line catalog to see what a bolt or screw is supposed to look like? Corvette Central has a great on-line catalog with pictures and I often use it as a reference, but wouldn’t be nice to have a fastener only reference available?
This is something that has come up over and over for me. I don’t want "scope creep" to make this a bigger project than it needs to be. I thought that if there was some interest I would standardize a format and work on information for my year, 1969. If others wanted to contribute or develop something for their year Corvette, that would be great and it could be kept seperate or combined in a master reference database or be prnted.
My question to the members is:- Does such a document already exist?
- If not, does anybody beside me think it would be a useful reference to have?
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Re: Fastener Identification
If you get as far as getting your fasteners back from refinishing without realizing that there are differences in the bolts that need more specific identification...Then, you will be, indeed, naive and realize the error of your ways.
I have yet to find a vendor supplied reproduction screw kit that bore any resemblance to the screws originally used. Maybe I'm just too exacting.
Our intent is not to discourage you...only to fully illuminate you on the scope of your ambition. We applaud your enthusiasm and wish you success. We earnestly look forward to seeing the compendium.- Does such a document already exist?
- If not, does anybody beside me think it would be a useful reference to have?
But, as a point of fact, many of us have compiled such references, however, they are only applicable to ONE model year car built at one particular time. If you have done careful restoration, you make such a reference every time you do a restoration. Is our "reference" likely to be the same as original for another same model year Corvette built a month, or even a day later?...Well, only God knows, but it's probably not.
One of the worst mistakes you can make in restoration is to start changing parts that are obviously original to your car for those that vendors, other judges, and even the judging manual say are "correct" for your car. How do you know that such parts are "obviously" original?...that's a tough question to answer. Your car will always be the best reference as to what it was originally...If it's missing originality, then you can only hope to simulate that originality with a headstamp that was observed on another car.Comment
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