Front clip saging -gap at door pillar

[Steve L.]

There is a huge gap at the top between the door and the front clip.
This has been increasing over the years.

I have the body on a body dolly and the doors off. I've just replaced the rocker channels on both sides from a donar. While doing this, I noticed that the bond between the firewall and the front of the door pillar channels has let go. Probably because the #1 and 2 body mounts and the front of the rocker channels disintegrated due to rust.

There is a wider gap between the top of the firewall and the door pillar than at the bottom.

What's the easiest way of rebonding this?

I suspect your gonna tell me that the front clip has to come off. Can I pry off the firewall just enough to get adhesive in there without taking the firewall off completely?

Thanks,

[Ridge K.]

Re: Front clip saging -gap at door pillar

moving you back up

[Alan S.]

Re: Front clip saging -gap at door pillar

Hi Steve,
I'll bump you again, I saw your post on CF. Someone here should be able to give you some help!
Regards,
Alan

PS: I guess if it was a 64-67 you'd have lots of replies.

[Terry B.]

Re: Front clip saging -gap at door pillar

Steve,

I'm bumping you up again. There should be someone who can comment. Good-luck with the project!

[Harmon C.]

Re: Front clip saging -gap at door pillar

I have rebonded with Lord Fusor products and the weld is very strong if the area is roughed up and clean. Lots of 73's show a wide gap at the top between the door and the cowl. I would rebond the loose area and if I didn't like the fit I would use fiberglass to extend one of the edges till the fit is within GM specs. I use a paint paddle to check the gap. Thease cars were built by hand and they can be fixed the same way just don't use bondo or vette bond to build up edges.

[Robert R.]

Re: Front clip saging -gap at door pillar

Lyle,
Is Steve's issue that a part of the body separated and needs to be repaired?
Or is it just the typical visual of '73s top half of the fender to door seam being wider?
My first '73 even back in 1977 had that look to it as does my current convertible looks now.
Bob

[Harmon C.]

Re: Front clip saging -gap at door pillar

I noticed that the bond between the firewall and the front of the door pillar channels has let go.
Thanks,

I kept only the part of Steve's original post that says he has a bond problem as well as a gap problem

[Steve L.]

Re: Front clip saging -gap at door pillar

Thanks Guys,
The bond between the firewall and the door post has let go. I can see a bit of gap in the firewall near the door as well.

I took a bit of the bottom few inches of the door post out when I replaced the rocker channel with a doner, The front of the original door post didn't have any rust so I think it's just a bonding issue.

The clip to cowling bond looks good. It just looks like this door post bond has let go.

I'm hoping I don't have to remove the front clip and firewall to get at this bond.

I never got any replies, so I assumed nobody has had this problem.
Thanks for the bump.

[Steve L.]

Re: Front clip saging -gap at door pillar

Here is a picture of the gap. It gets larger at the top.

[Chuck S.]

Re: Front clip saging -gap at door pillar

Here is a picture of the gap. It gets larger at the top.

Are you sure that's a bond?...At that location on earlier cars (68-72), I might expect seam sealer for a cosmetic blend between the two materials. On earlier cars, the real strength bond is on the FRONT vertical surface of the hinge pillar...I recommend careful study of Section 1 of your 73 AIM to see how that panel is bonded to the bird cage for your car.

If it really IS a bond...I wouldn't be able to go forward without inspecting ALL the bonds for the front clip (I have severe masochistic OCD tendencies. ) I would analyze it this way: All those bonds were made at the same time with the same batch of adhesive, and they have all been exposed to the same environmental conditions for the same amount of time...to assume that one bond has selectively failed while the others remain strong seems illogical. As Lyle says, you definitely want to use a Fusor type product for a 73 if you need to repair bonds.

Also, I'm not sure you'all are talking about the same gap, but many shark cars have an unusally wide door gap between the top of the door skin and the fender on the passenger side...I can't explain why it only seems true for the passenger side. My 70 had a large gap, with other attendant kinks in the fender skin at the bulkhead bonding area...not what the stylist intended. As Lyle says, you can extend the fender skin with Fusor's mat and resin filler to perfect the door gap; to do so is probably over-restoration, but each of us gets to make his own choice.

If you do work to perfect the door gap, be careful not to get it too close about midway between the top of the door and the panel break line. The thickness of a paint stirring stick (1/8") is a little close for my comfort, and would be the lower limit for GM spec door gaps. As the door opens, the gap between the two skins changes rapidily; the gap that looks beautiful with the door closed may result in interfence with the fender as the door is opened, causing damage to the fiberglass.

[Steve L.]

Re: Front clip saging -gap at door pillar

Thanks Chuck,
The picture you are looking at is the right side. So the gap IS at the FRONT vertical surface.

Now that you mentioned it, how is the front clip held on? It looks like the front clip is bonded to the cowl and the firewall. The firewall is then bonded to the front of the hinge pillar. That's it, other than the rad support, there's nothing else holding it on..Is this correct? As you suggested, I'm gonna look at the AIM.

My problem is that the #1 and #2 body mounts rusted out so there was no support under that area. So that particular bond probably was probably stressed more than others.

I've had this since new. The gap has slowly gotten worst. Now there is an inch gap at the top on the passenger side. The driver side has also grown but not as bad.

[Chuck S.]

Re: Front clip saging -gap at door pillar

Thanks Chuck,
The picture you are looking at is the right side. So the gap IS at the FRONT vertical surface...

The surface I'm talking about is on the front of the hinge pillar toward the engine compartment; it can't be seen in the picture...it's behind the panel. I think that panel is actually a bulkhead that the fender skin bonds to, and which forms the rear wall of the lower plenum inside the fender (where the fresh air door for the AC or vent door would be located).

In any event, if the bonds ARE on the front of the hinge pillar and are solid, I wouldn't expect that gap to open up on the side of the hinge pillar like that unless that panel was deformed by complications from your rust problems.

Study your AIM...I'm getting pretty far out on a limb assuming a 73 is put together like a 70 under the skin.

[Steven B.]

Re: Front clip saging -gap at door pillar

Steve, you probably already thought about it but don't forget to replace the hinge pins.

Steve

[Steve L.]

Re: Front clip saging -gap at door pillar

After checking the firewall bond area more closely and having a look at the photos from the CF forum on firewall removals, I've come to the conclusion that my firewall has let go at the bond line at the door pillar post. The hand full of rivets on this post have also let go.
This is why the gap between the fender and door has widened over the years. You can't see any of this unless the doors have been removed.

I suspect that this is a common problem and the door pillar gap is a sure indication of this.

I suspect that water gets in there and rusts the surface of the door pillar, then the adhesive bond, along with some rust, lets go.

Probably the proper way of fixing this is to take the firewall off, fix the rust at the door pillar and any windshield birdcage areas, then rebond and rivet. This is a lot of work since the windshield and front clip has to come off along with all the stuff hanging off the firewall

I wonder if any easier (and bubba) fix, would be to weld up some clamping fixture, clean-up that bond line as best as possible, inject adhesive in, then clamp the firewall to the door pillar with the welded fixture.

I think this will be a job for the spring since Carlisle is coming up and I still have to put back all the underbody reinforcements and put all the stuff back on my rebuilt frame.

[Chuck S.]

Re: Front clip saging -gap at door pillar

...I wonder if any easier (and bubba) fix, would be to weld up some clamping fixture, clean-up that bond line as best as possible, inject adhesive in, then clamp the firewall to the door pillar with the welded fixture...

I think I would get a friend to help me lift on the right side of the front clip (I'm assuming the body is on a dolly)...if the clip has large movement relative to the body BEFORE the expected deflection of the front clip fiberglass is complete, you probably have broken structural bonds.

You don't have to try and lift the whole car by the front end or break your fiberglass...I'm thinking if you have had an increasing gap over years, then there should be visible relative movement between the body and the front clip early in the lifting process.

The problem with the easy solution of injecting adhesive into the visible panel gap is that it is, at best, a stop-gap (no pun intended) solution. If you do have rust that has caused bonds to fail, the only prudent, long term solution is to REMOVE ALL THE RUST, refinish the birdcage, and rebond the front clip to the birdcage. It will be a LOT of work; I don't envy those of you seeking to restore Canadian cars.