Paint Question -- 1963

[Gregory F.]

I am doing my first corvette body restoration and am unfamiliar with the layers of paint on an original car. The car is an original ermine white, but has significant paint damage, as well as flared hubs that I am going to fix. Anyhow, I have done a bit of scraping on the paint and it comes off in the following layers from outside to inside; white topcoat, dark reddish brown, another white coat, black, a very hard gray coat, black, and then bare fiberglass. Are these the right paint layers for an original car paint job?
Since I am going to be doing some body repairs, should I take the entire car down to bare fiberglass or should I just remove down to some other level (like the hard gray coat level) except in those areas where I am repairing? If you go down to bare fiberglass, is it ok to have some of the last black coat still visible since it seems to be embedded in the fiberglass in some locations? I looked through the archives and couldn't find anything that answered these questions, so I'm hoping someone can help.

[Timothy B.]

Re: Paint Question -- 1963

Gregory,

When I did my 63 there was dark grey and red looking primer, this stuff was very difficult to remove. Take the car to that point and wet sand with 220 paper and it's my opinion that it does not have to be removed. If you have found black then someone may have been there before you so get all that old paint off before wet sanding..

There are alot of paint horror stories so take your time and do it right making sure to remove all strippers with lacquor thinner. After bodywork I sealed the car with DP-40 epoxy primer before spraying sandable primer. Used the colors in the primer as a leveling base.

[Stewart A.]

Re: Paint Question -- 1963

Looks like your ermine car wasn't an ermine car. Tuxedo black sounds like it could of been the original ? Try to leave the last coat on it. That's the tuff primer the factory put on it. It's kind of like Gel coat. Try not to use any filler if you can help it. It seems to move about at different rates to the glass and can cause shrinkage problems in the heat. Stewy

[John D.]

Re: Paint Question -- 1963

Gregory, Please tell us the info on your trim tag to insure you have an Ermine white car. My 63 is Ermine white. Code 936.
Without looking I think Tuxedo black is 900 or so.
Have someone check out your trim tag to insure it's original. Or post a nice pic here of the tag. Good luck, John

[Steven G.]

Re: Paint Question -- 1963

I just stripped a 72,' and when I got down to a gray primmer I noticed how well bonded and hard it was to remove so I plan to leave it, also, never use body filler today, polyester with hardner seems to last longer and is much better to finish, but do not use to repair fiberglass cracks, that's when to use fiberglass mat and resin with hardner. Steve

[Stewart A.]

Re: Paint Question -- 1963

I did extensive repairs on my hood last year. I repaired all the cracks and had a couple of high and low spots so I skimmed filler over the hood and blocked it back flat then polyestered the hood, high filled, undercoated and then top coated and blocked back to a diamond finish. All was good until the heat got to the hood now in certain light I can see the shrinkage of the filler in the spots it had remained. I let it gas off for a few months before I polyestered the hood as well. So a lesson learned no more filler. Being a hood and getting hot from sun and engine heat is probably the worst panel on the car for shrinkage. Stewy

[Paul J.]

Re: Paint Question -- 1963

I just stripped a 72,' and when I got down to a gray primmer I noticed how well bonded and hard it was to remove so I plan to leave it, also, never use body filler today, polyester with hardner seems to last longer and is much better to finish, but do not use to repair fiberglass cracks, that's when to use fiberglass mat and resin with hardner. Steve

Help me out here, Steve. Body filler is polyester, and requires the hardener to set. I use it occaisionally. I must either be missing something or my terminology is messed up. Maybe I've spent too much time with the greasemonkeys. What are you and Stewy calling "body filler"?

Paul

[Steven B.]

Re: Paint Question -- 1963

I am doing my first corvette body restoration and am unfamiliar with the layers of paint on an original car. The car is an original ermine white, but has significant paint damage, as well as flared hubs that I am going to fix. Anyhow, I have done a bit of scraping on the paint and it comes off in the following layers from outside to inside; white topcoat, dark reddish brown, another white coat, black, a very hard gray coat, black, and then bare fiberglass. Are these the right paint layers for an original car paint job?
Since I am going to be doing some body repairs, should I take the entire car down to bare fiberglass or should I just remove down to some other level (like the hard gray coat level) except in those areas where I am repairing? If you go down to bare fiberglass, is it ok to have some of the last black coat still visible since it seems to be embedded in the fiberglass in some locations? I looked through the archives and couldn't find anything that answered these questions, so I'm hoping someone can help.

'Sounds like you are also going through gel coat.

[Stewart A.]

Re: Paint Question -- 1963

Paul polyester is like a more soft gel coat and yes it is a 2 parts hardener and product. It's used over the top of your repairs. The layers that I use are as follows. Base fiber glass you do your repairs on cracks then if you have a low spot you need to fill it. That's when you use a filler (bog), after that you can even use a fine filler that is like dust but I don't like using it (shrinks massive). Then I use the polyester. Polyester is not for filling it's like a shell and acts like the original sealer that GM uses but it's the bees knees and costs more than a Rolls Royce. Then I use High fill it's kind of like spray putty but doesn't shrink as much and is great for evening out miniscule highs and lows and tiny bumps you want to get rid of. At this stage the panel should be as smooth a baby's bottom. Undercoat goes on and then top coat colour. I'm not sure why the panel shop never wanted to heat their booth on the last time I painted the panel. They tell me the products that go down are meant to gas off slowly on fiber glass ? I think they are full of sh..... but maybe there methods have some merit. What I do know glass moves more than metal when heated in the sun so you must be careful where you leave your car out in the elements. Maybe that's why Corvettes crack so much. All that junk on top of the glass moves in the sun at a different rate than the glass. Eventually you get slight separation of the products as well as shrinkage and the panel starts to look a bit ordinary.
These methods are what I use and are not to NCRS methods of painting. But I live in the 20th century and use 20th century products they look awesome when done correct but it is not the finish that NCRS is trying to achieve. NCRS is about maintaining that original style of body presentation. It's funny most old cars suit that look and do kind of look out of place when they get a modern paint job on them. I do find when selling these cars most people do like the modern car paint over the lacquer paint. Not everyone is a number crunching retard society like me. Stewy

[Steven G.]

Re: Paint Question -- 1963

Just to add to Stewey's great reply, I use Dynatron #592 putty-coat, on the metal container label, POLYESTER GLAZING AND SPOT PUTTY, smooth, tack free, easy sanding spot coat for final finishing, prevents bleed-thru problems of plastic body fillers. Body shops today use dynatron or same type product because the featherability is much better than regular body filler and a blocker for bleed thru. The cost is much more and to save money on deep filling areas (metal bodys) shops will use regular body filler and Dynatron to finish, usually on corvette bodys a deep fill (over 1/4") would be rare, thats when fiberglass resin should be used. I think after you use Dynatron you will see the benifits especially the lack of shrinkage compared to regular body filler. Steve

[Gregory F.]

Re: Paint Question -- 1963

Thanks to everyone for their help -- I checked the trim tags and verified that this is supposed to be an ermine white car -- I have done a bit more work on the panels in the past few days and the final gray layer that I referred to in my original post is in fact the layer currently covering the bare fiberglass -- the black that I was seeing was a result of wiping thinner on the gray causing the pigment to change. Summarizing everything all of you have said it sounds like my best bet is to save as much of the gray coat as possible -- fill small nicks with polyester to minimize shrinkage and go only down to the fiberglass level in the areas like the wheel wells where I need to do major repairs. Please let me know if this if off base or if you have any more suggestions.

[Stewart A.]

Re: Paint Question -- 1963

Will you be high filling the car. The reason I ask the more layers the more feathering (build up) less chance of any small defects showing it's ugly head. Stewy

[Gregory F.]

Re: Paint Question -- 1963

Stewy --

Haven't heard that term (high filling) before -- please explain.

[Irby G.]

Re: Paint Question -- 1963

I just stripped a 72,' and when I got down to a gray primmer I noticed how well bonded and hard it was to remove so I plan to leave it, also, never use body filler today, polyester with hardner seems to last longer and is much better to finish, but do not use to repair fiberglass cracks, that's when to use fiberglass mat and resin with hardner. Steve

Steve, What did you use to strip down to the primer that actually left the primer alone? I've bought some Cap'n Lees and plan on using that. Thanks.
Irby

[Stewart A.]

Re: Paint Question -- 1963

High fill is a modern day form of spray putty (2 Pak) with less shrinkage. It's the last product before primer goes on. The idea of high fill is to get rid of any minor highs and lows and minute imperfections in the body work. Good stuff really easy to sand back. It's like heavy dust ! It's a no no for the real NCRS people. It makes the body look to good over restored. I use it some times twice if I find more flaws that it didn't get out. Stewy