1965 - help with a couple of quirks I am trying to address before judging on Saturday

[Mark P.]

On Saturday I am having my 65 driver judged at a Chapter meet. It will be my first time through judging but I have OJ'd at a Regional and a National, so I understand a bit of the process.

I have addressed a lot of other issues on the car but am left with these 3 quirks.

I don't have much time so am looking for any advice you can offer. I have searched the TDB and have an idea of what to do but would sure appreciate some help prioritizing my efforts.

1. Clock - it hasn't ticked in the 7 months I have owned the car. I was thinking of removing the console side covers and popping the clock out and try cleaning up the points. I also have some clock oil I can apply to some of the gears and shafts. I have had my C1 clock out several times but have never tried a C2 clock.

2. Washer pump - Nothing happens when I push the button. I will try the tips to prime it by sucking hard on the hose. I have a rebuild kit. Was wondering if I can remove the diaphram cover while the pump is in the car and change some of the rubber components.

3. Horn - they are not very loud. Is there an adustment screw that might help make them louder ?

Since they are all 25 point operation deducts what would you focus on if you just had a few hours to spare ?

[William C.]

Re: 1965 - help with a couple of quirks I am trying to address before judging on Satu

Yes, very few things you can do will give you the "bang for the buck" of passing ops 100%. I'd start with the horns, since I interpret your message as Being "they blow but not well" there is an adjustment screw on each horn that can be turned to adjust the air gap of the points that make the horn blow. Try a 1/4 turn in one direction on one horn and see if better, if not, try the other direction. Adjust each horn seperately for best tone.
Prime the WSW pump and try it a couple of times. If it doesn't respond, I'd try the clock. Two clips hold it in and as I recall they can be accessed by removing the glovebox, not a real big job. Check the clock fuse and connection first, then pull the clock. There was a thread on disassembling the clock a few days back, so a search of the archives should pull it up. #1 item for NCRS jusding prep is to be able to treat "ops" as "Free Points" by having the car prepaerd, and dont forget the three items for the 10 point bonus!

[Mark P.]

Re: 1965 - help with a couple of quirks I am trying to address before judging on Satu

Thanks Bill. This will really help me to try to get some of these 75 points.

I have the window decal, fire ext and battery cut-off so I'll get the 10 points.

The car came with 2 NCRS decals. Is that OK ?

[William C.]

Re: 1965 - help with a couple of quirks I am trying to address before judging on Satu

One is minimum, but no penalty for excess.

[Steven N.]

Re: 1965 - help with a couple of quirks I am trying to address before judging on Satu

Where is the judging event ?

[Gerard F.]

Re: 1965 - help with a couple of quirks I am trying to address before judging on Satu

On Saturday I am having my 65 driver judged at a Chapter meet. It will be my first time through judging but I have OJ'd at a Regional and a National, so I understand a bit of the process.

I have addressed a lot of other issues on the car but am left with these 3 quirks.

I don't have much time so am looking for any advice you can offer. I have searched the TDB and have an idea of what to do but would sure appreciate some help prioritizing my efforts.

1. Clock - it hasn't ticked in the 7 months I have owned the car. I was thinking of removing the console side covers and popping the clock out and try cleaning up the points. I also have some clock oil I can apply to some of the gears and shafts. I have had my C1 clock out several times but have never tried a C2 clock.

2. Washer pump - Nothing happens when I push the button. I will try the tips to prime it by sucking hard on the hose. I have a rebuild kit. Was wondering if I can remove the diaphram cover while the pump is in the car and change some of the rubber components.

3. Horn - they are not very loud. Is there an adustment screw that might help make them louder ?

Since they are all 25 point operation deducts what would you focus on if you just had a few hours to spare ?

Mark,

To be honest, I think you are a little too late on the clock. That could be a time consuming job just getting to the mechanism, filing the points and oiling it up, and maybe to no avail. In fact, in order to get to the mechanism, I think you may have to uncrimp the housing and then recrimp it. You could probably do more damage by trying to rush the job.

I think I'd try Bill's horn fix first, then replace the check valve in the washer pump with your rebuild kit. On the washer pump, replace the check valve only if when you push the washer button, you can hear the washer pump start clicking like it is trying to pump. If it doesn't click, you'd be wasting your time replacing the check valve. Something else is wrong.

But if it clicks, you could take the check valve head off, check what's there and replace or just clean up the original check valve. It is just 4 screws but it is a little awkward getting to them. If you put a new check valve in or just clean the old, make sure you put a little silicone grease (Sly-Glyde, I use) on the rubber seals and valves. Then when together do a good prime job on it and check it.

I use a catheter syringe (from my bladder op some years ago, now remitted) to prime the washer pump, works just great. I'll have it with me at the event, but would rather not use it on the judging field. But I'll be at the Hampton Inn in Roseville, tomorrow afternoon about 3 PM.

Maybe see you there Mark, if not, at the event.

[Mark P.]

Re: 1965 - help with a couple of quirks I am trying to address before judging on Satu

The event is at Granite Bay in Northern California near Sacramento.

Jerry - I will be at the Hampton Inn about 2pm and will be in the parking lot cleaning up my car.

Would apreciate your syringe to prime the pump.

See you tomorrow.

[Louis T.]

Re: 1965 - help with a couple of quirks I am trying to address before judging on Satu

Hi Mark,



If clogged (partially or completely), an overnight soak in some CLR (dissolves calcium, lime, and rust) and some gentle poking with a pin should clear any obstructions.

Good luck on Saturday!

Louis

[Roger P.]

Re: 1965 - help with a couple of quirks I am trying to address before judging on Satu

Mark,
Good luck with your judging meet on Saturday. I have a '65, too, and took care of my clock and washer pump problems a few months ago. You can look up my posts on both subjects, but I'll give you the Cliff Notes version since your time is limited. The clock comes out very easily by removing the two radio side panels (don't remove the glovebox). There are two clips that go over guide posts that "slide & click" into place. Take those off and disconnect the two wires and the light and the clock is in your hand. I had my clock restored since it cost under $ 100- and now looks new, but you can take a quick look at the points to see if you can get it ticking. You will have it back in the car in about 15 minutes.

With regard to the washer pump, the four screws are awkward to reach as Gerard mentioned. I had a tough time at first dealing with the screws, but eventually realized that removing the air cleaner and distributor cap made the job much easier. I marked and removed four wires and flipped the cap over toward the passenger side of the engine compartment. As Bill and Gerard said, if you don't hear the pump click after pushing the button, then you most likely have a problem behind the cover of the pump. The plastic nozzle piece held on by the four screws houses the pump bellows and two small o-rings. I don't remember if the spring is accessed from this area or from inside the pump. Once the nozzle, o-rings, and bellows are removed, you will see the metal "plunger disc" at the end of the spring. Push the button and observe the disc to confirm that it is pumping/clicking. If not, the problem is inside the pump. I replaced the bellows and o-rings, but my main problem was a stuck gear. It ended up being an easy fix once I got the pump off the car. If you remove the pump, be careful with the bottom left screw as it connects what I believe is a grounding wire - and the pump won't work at all without it. Also, putting the pump back on is a little tricky as you have to align the internal gears with an alignment slot as it goes back toward the firewall (it can be frustrating). Before working on the clock or the washer pump, I would recommend that you disconnect the battery cable just to play safe.

If you have a few hours to spare, you should be able to attempt both jobs .

Have a great time,
Roger (50141)

[Mark P.]

Re: 1965 - help with a couple of quirks I am trying to address before judging on Satu

Thanks everyone for the advice. I got the horns working for the Chapter meet. Didn't get the washer pump going though. The diaphram is out. I'll deal with that later. I also didn't deal with the clock.

I really enjoyed the judging process and reached my goal of getting a 3rd flight with my unrestored and somewhat molested car. I should have focused more on getting it ready. I ended up with an 84 after getting my 1 driving point.

The 84 is inspite of the fact I lost about all the points for the wrong coil, exhaust system, volt reg, horn relay, horns, antenna, lighter, fan belt, engine decals, radiator, shocks , etc and ops for clock/wiper washer/license plate light, etc. Most of those parts are parts counter replacements not even bad repros. I can easily do better.

I just wanted the car judged before I start doing much work on it.

[William C.]

Re: 1965 - help with a couple of quirks I am trying to address before judging on Satu

Great Start! Good luck with the car!

[Rick S.]

Re: 1965 - help with a couple of quirks I am trying to address before judging on Satu

Mark,
You are taking the right approach in the restoration in your car. Now you know what needs your attention to improve your car. Keep at it.

Rick

[Patrick T.]

Re: 1965 - help with a couple of quirks I am trying to address before judging on Satu

So how does the driving bonus points work? If you drive 100 miles to a judging meet, do you get 1 point? If so, is that a big point or a little point? PT

[William C.]

Re: 1965 - help with a couple of quirks I am trying to address before judging on Satu

Driving point, 100 miles equals one point added to the final score total (big point) up to 10% of your raw score. Car must score at least 75 raw to be eligable for driving points. (Per the Judging reference manual)

[Mark P.]

Re: 1965 - help with a couple of quirks I am trying to address before judging on Satu

It was 120 miles one way so I got 1.2 points. It was actually a tough way to get a "big point" because I got stuck in stop and go traffic for 1/2 of the 3 hour drive in 90 F heat. The car got was at 210F a lot and I forgot how hard it is to drive a clutch in traffic.