Cold Start-Ops Check-Flight Judging

[Clark K.]

Guys, I need advice from you experienced Top Flight car owners or judges. This concerns the cold start of my 1965 A/C Coupe with L76 engine during the ops judging for Top Flight.

Sometimes, but not always, when I start my car dead-cold, it fires and immediately dies. The subsequent re-start will almost always be fine. The fast idle adustment is fine no matter when the engine fires and continues to run.

Last April, at the chapter meet, the car fired up immediately and continued to run at the fast idle speed until the ops judges told me to "idle it down". It worked perfectly THAT TIME.

The advice I need concerns NEXT TIME:
IS there anything I can do to maximize the likelihood that it fires immediately and continues to run? I know that if it dies that I will be allowed to restart the engine. But, the 1965 JG does not address what happens when a car dies and needs to be re-started.
-Clark

[Joe C.]

Re: Cold Start-Ops Check-Flight Judging

Clark,

First, I have a question: Tell EXACTLY what you do to start the car each and every time. It is important that you do EXACTLY the same thing every time.

Since you're talking about ops judging at a chapter meet, we'll assume that the car is not stone cold, and that the float bowls are full.

Suggest that you pump the pedal to the floorboards ONCE (since the engine is not stone cold) before cranking, then remove foot from accelerator while cranking and after firing. If the car is stone cold, as it would be for a PV check, then pump it THREE times. Also, sneak down with a syringe and top off your float bowl(s) if you have a known fuel leakage problem! Don't get caught.

The "choke pulloff" may not be set properly, and may be opening the choke valve too far once the diaphragm sees engine vacuum upon firing. Check this item before you do anything else.

Joe

[Dick W.]

Re: Cold Start-Ops Check-Flight Judging

Clark,



Suggest that you pump the pedal to the floorboards ONCE (since the engine is not stone cold) before cranking, then remove foot from accelerator while cranking and after firing. If the car is stone cold, as it would be for a PV check, then pump it THREE times.
Joe

If the PV judge happens to catch you priming the bowls, I would suspect that you have failed your PV before you even start the car. When you set the choke, it is ONE pump on the accelerator.

[Joe C.]

Re: Cold Start-Ops Check-Flight Judging

If the PV judge happens to catch you priming the bowls, I would suspect that you have failed your PV before you even start the car. When you set the choke, it is ONE pump on the accelerator.

The PV "suggestion" was made with tongue firmly in cheek. The above post has been edited to make that abundantly clear.

If the Ops Manual specifically states that you must pump the accelerator a single time during PV testing, then I stand corrected.

My '65 starts instantly with one pump shot into a stone cold intake manifold, and that is how I start mine. That's not to say that all will. The "three pump" suggestion is solely for the benefit of those that will not.

[Clark K.]

Re: Cold Start-Ops Check-Flight Judging

The situation is with a stone-cold engine, as at the ops start-up. There is no problem with a warm engine start. I am asking about the operations section of Flight judging, not PV judging.

Here is what I do when the engine is cold:
I push the accelerator pedal once to the floor, remove my foot from the pedal, and turn the key to crank the engine. It "fires" straight away. But, sometimes, it dies after running for a second or two. An immediate restart will usually make it stay running at the fast idle speed.

If the car has been sitting in the garage for a week, it may fire and die two or three times before it fires and stays running. I have tried multiple accelerator pumps prior to initial cranking but it does not seem to do any good.

The 1965 JG is not clear whether a car will fail that part of the test if you have to crank it a second time to get it to continue running. It goes into detail ablout excessive cranking, which is not my problem. -Clark

[Joe C.]

Re: Cold Start-Ops Check-Flight Judging

Clark,

Start by checking the Choke Vacuum Break, AKA "Choke Pull-Off".

http://www.holley.com/data/Products/.../199R10013.pdf

Follow link , go to fig 28 on page 7. The measurement is made with a drill bit shank. I don't have your measurement at hand, but a MAXIMUM 1/4" drill bit will put you in the ball park. OK to go smaller than this, to minimum of 3/16", but no larger than 1/4".

[Michael W.]

Re: Cold Start-Ops Check-Flight Judging

I don't believe that the Ops check or the PV should expect the cars to behave better today than when they were new. If you get my drift

[Joe C.]

Re: Cold Start-Ops Check-Flight Judging

I don't believe that the Ops check or the PV should expect the cars to behave better today than when they were new. If you get my drift

Especially if you remember that half the stuff didn't work when it was new .

[Jean C.]

Re: Cold Start-Ops Check-Flight Judging

Clark, do you plan to drive or trailer your car to Killeen?

Cheers,

[Clark K.]

Re: Cold Start-Ops Check-Flight Judging

Clark, do you plan to drive or trailer your car to Killeen?

Cheers,

Charlie, I plan on driving it to Killeen. I am resigned to drive it even if there is a chance of rain. I hate trailers and do not want my car to be a "trailer queen".

I drove it home in the rain yesterday (Saturday) from Texas Motor Speedway. The sky looked threatening and many cars were leaving. I was hoping to get the car in the garage before it actually rained. No dice, I got less than halfway when the weather caught up to me in North Fort Worth. I continued to drive it home, anyway. Now, I get to crawl under it and clean the underside/wheelwells, etc. That usually takes me at least four hours.

[Rob M.]

Re: Cold Start-Ops Check-Flight Judging

Clark,

I might be way off, but it's been my experience (chapter and regional) that it will depend on who is judging your opps. Most judges are "reasonable" when it comes to cold starts. If I recall, the manual calls for "ease of start" but not number of starts. With that said, more than two might get a reasonable person thinking . . . "hmmm?".

If I were you, I would go through your normal cold start routine. If the fast idle works as it should and it all else is good I wouldn't worry about it (particularly if you drive there).

Good luck,
Rob