I recently aquired an original 77 4 speed vette with 37k on it. Very original , but getting water in the footwells (it's been outside this past year unfortunetly) Is this getting in from the wiper tray? Any suggestions to fix?
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Re: water in the footwells
It's possible, but not likely.
With no evidence of water leaks on the glass, the usual source of water in the footwells is from rust penetrations along the base of the windshield frame and/or from a punched hole in the cowl area of the birdcage, one each side, that becomes unsealed. The AIM shows this hole plugged early in the "Bolt Weld" section. If it's only leakage through that hole, you'll be lucky; most C3s will have heavy rust around the windshield frame by the this time.
If the leakage is due to these two possibilities, better park ole Bessie inside, or throw a tarp over her...the rust fix is going to be a lot of work. -
Re: water in the footwells
Thanks for the reply Chuck. Any chance of removing the windshield and inspecting/repairing the A pillers?Comment
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Re: water in the footwells
Yes, when you remove the windshield moldings and the glass, you'll get a good 'birdseye' on the condition of the birdcage that forms the windshield surround. If its BADLY rotted out, there are two approaches to repair.
The first is to purchase individual, reproduction, bird cage components to replace the damaged factory originals. This is kind of pricey as the catalog houses are 'proud' of these parts regarding price.
The second approach is to find a scrap yard Corvette that's in clean/used condition and cut its WS surround. Then, carefully measure the damaged areas on your car and cut, swap and weld the replacement surrounding fame in. You can find reasonably clean, used, original frame components for $125-300 from various yards and/or eBay sources.
This isn't a job for the timid, but it can be done correctly and professionally, IF that's the source of your cabin water invasion...Comment
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Re: water in the footwells
What'er ya tryin' to do, Jack, scare him to death?
Actually, Ray, Jack has described the worst case; you might get by with less damage.
My car was probably an example of the "best case". It spent most of it's life in West Texas (desert climate), with some time in Louisana
. I say this to illustrate that my frame and other chassis components were virtually rust free, yet the cowl area under the windshield pinch weld had rusted through in a couple of places, the worst hole being about 1 square inch.
By the time I cut out all the thinned metal, bird cage steel is not all that thick anyway, that hole had grown to probably 5 square inches in area. I cut and formed patch out of sheet steel of about the same gage, and plan to MIG weld that patch flush with the cowl. A couple of smaller pin holes (1/8") will simply be filled with body filler after the bird cage is sand blasted and epoxy primed.
PS: Jack's right about IF rust through being the cause. I would exhaust all other possibilities before jumping into removing the windshield. In other words, I would stand on my head in the foot well to make sure where the water was originating. In that area under the windshield, the birdcage is actually a double thickness with an air gap between the walls as I recall; it will be difficult to see where water is actually entering. You may also need to do some interior removal to get close to the problem.Comment
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Re: water in the footwells
Was 1975 the last year for fiberglass foot pans? If so, get it repaired soon.Comment
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Re: water in the footwells
Well I have the car in my heated garage, the floorpans are fiberglass (thank God) No signs of rust on the inside of the A pillers. The carpet is very wet, but I have not bought the car yet, so I have it lifted up and will let it dry for a while and until I can check the rest as you folks recommend. I have all the paperwork since the car was new, and the work done on it. Never hit, all the bonding strips can easily be seen. 37k original milage. New clutch etc, 5k ago. The frame itself is excellent, it was undercoated at the dealership, just some scaling, otherwise rock solid. I vacumned out all the leaves from the wiper tray. So I will look deeper in the coming days, I hope its saveble, local car since new, only 2 owners. Plus you dont see many 4 speeds albiet its an L48 vice L82. A local merchant bought it for his wife, July 3rd 1977 .
I'll keep posting if anybody is interested, thanks for all your input!! Ray
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Re: water in the footwells
Lack of rust on the interior side of the windshield pillars means nothing...the rust will be under the windshield reveal moldings on the outside, and it won't be the pillars unless it's REALLY bad.
Have someone run a water hose on the ends of the windshield near the fenders, then get in the foot well and look up under the dash to find water dripping in.
Saveable?!...Very definitely. It may take a little work to stop the leaks, but it sounds like a good car otherwise. Just be sure you understand the source of the leaks, and how to deal with them. Rust around the windshield is to be expected...unfortunately, it's "just part of the C3 condition".Comment
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Re: water in the footwells
Thanks for the reply. How is the water normally drained from the wiper tray area in the first place?Comment
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Re: water in the footwells
I assume that a 77 is the same as earlier cars in that all water from the wiper compartment/front plenum drains to either end and flows into an area behind the front wheel wells, and out the bottom of the fenders.
On the passenger side, fresh air for HVAC is admitted from that area into a space behind the passenger side kick panel. If you have water leaking in due to rust or the punched holes I mentioned, it will probably run or drip down close to the kick panel area.Comment
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Re: water in the footwells
Ray as mentioned above you vacuumed leaves from the wiper tray. You will not know how much debris has made it from the wiper area into the plenums on each side. As mentioned there is a drain on each side of the car from the plenum.Well I have the car in my heated garage, the floorpans are fiberglass (thank God) No signs of rust on the inside of the A pillers. The carpet is very wet, but I have not bought the car yet, so I have it lifted up and will let it dry for a while and until I can check the rest as you folks recommend. I have all the paperwork since the car was new, and the work done on it. Never hit, all the bonding strips can easily be seen. 37k original milage. New clutch etc, 5k ago. The frame itself is excellent, it was undercoated at the dealership, just some scaling, otherwise rock solid. I vacumned out all the leaves from the wiper tray. So I will look deeper in the coming days, I hope its saveble, local car since new, only 2 owners. Plus you dont see many 4 speeds albiet its an L48 vice L82. A local merchant bought it for his wife, July 3rd 1977 .
I'll keep posting if anybody is interested, thanks for all your input!! Ray
I don't know how high the water can get if the drains are clogged with leaves and other debris. If your 77 is not air conditioned perhaps the drain water could be coming through the air vents behind the kick panels. If the kick panels and vent doors are removed you can verify what is there and clean it out.
If the drains are not stopped up, there could still be stuff there since the drain holes are not very large to pass leaves.
Another way for water to enter is a hole in the lower windshield/birdcage metal frame. This hole cannot be seen because it is under a piece of fiberglass that supports the upper rear fender and is attached to the metal frame work. Water can seep in under the fiberglass support and into the hole. From this hole it enters the car. Even the new replacement framework from GM still had the hole.
Repairing this leak area involves a lot of work.Comment
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Re: water in the footwells
Ray I agree with Jim had a 71 that leaves and debris had accumulated at the bottom of the plenums and after a heavy rain with the car outside water would rise above the foot well vent and I could end up with 2 inches of water or more in the in the foot well. Also worked on a 73 that when it rained water would also fill the foot well pass side. Found the leak using a hose till water would drip inside. The leak was just below the "A" pillar where the plenum and front door pillar are glued together there is a curved area there. Used a hack saw blade to removed the adhesive once that was cleaned out forced 2 part epoxy back into the area to seal and re-secure the joint. Never leaked there again. Paul 18046Comment
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