Air Cleaner Lid

[Ronald L.]

Re: Air Cleaner Lid

Hi Dave, thanks for the missing link, I could find the 66 327 part number, but the 66 427 did not show in the limited set of books I have. This is real interesting that the metal base changed with very subtle modifications, but the air filter for these assemblies carries the same PN to this day despite several significant changes.

[David L.]

Re: Air Cleaner Lid

Ron,
Do you know what the actual physical difference is between the 6422188 base and the 6423910 base? Enclosed is a photo of my research using 7 of my Chevrolet parts catalogs (Jan. 65 to Oct. 68).
Dave

[William C.]

Re: Air Cleaner Lid

I'm with Jack, I've seen maybe two "real" 396 lids in the last 15 years or so. Maybe a point on condition, but compared to the configuration issues in both the metal and the silkscreen on the reproduction, why not just ues the original?

[Ronald L.]

Re: Air Cleaner Lid

There are so many repro's out there it clouds the real parts, but, the lid can be made from the original tool, the too running in '65 or 2010 will make the same part. Then the issue becomes the silk screen, and, I believe post May 2010 that from other posts within and out of this thread that issue has been resolved. Yes, there are going to be differences as there were more than one silk screen, they do not last very long in production and had to be duplicated.

Dave, on the bases, thank you for your notes, it throws a twist into this as I expected just the opposite, I need to get some of the pictures posted elsewhere of a known 66 427 and compare to a known '67 427 part, also to a known 66 327 part I have that should match your original part, and "perhaps" the known 67 part will match those parts from '72, and later when the dies were transferred across town to their current location.

[Terry M.]

Re: Air Cleaner Lid

There are so many repro's out there it clouds the real parts, but, the lid can be made from the original tool, the too running in '65 or 2010 will make the same part. Then the issue becomes the silk screen, and, I believe post May 2010 that from other posts within and out of this thread that issue has been resolved. Yes, there are going to be differences as there were more than one silk screen, they do not last very long in production and had to be duplicated.

Dave, on the bases, thank you for your notes, it throws a twist into this as I expected just the opposite, I need to get some of the pictures posted elsewhere of a known 66 427 and compare to a known '67 427 part, also to a known 66 327 part I have that should match your original part, and "perhaps" the known 67 part will match those parts from '72, and later when the dies were transferred across town to their current location.

[Ronald L.]

Re: Air Cleaner Lid

Terry, all points mentioned are very valid, as we saw with the Stant oil caps, tool refurb created a high priced market for the originals.

I can say on the base die, I can tell the very subtle difference between a 1970's hit part and a 2000 hit part, die wear, or die set up, my top ideas of why there is a variation. The press shouldn't influence these type of parts more of die set up and attention to details. The other thing with service parts is they will be more prone to use/sell all the hits off the tool, versus making a few hits, verifying tolerances are with in spec, making adjustments and then running parts.

The lid would be a good exploration, I have not seen that tool specifically...

[Terry M.]

Re: Air Cleaner Lid

I am thinking the speed of the press -- which relates to its capacity (I should have used capacity rather than size in my post above) -- could change the lid. Perhaps not much of a change, but we tend to examine these kinds of details and obsess over the most minor ones.

Yes, the radiator caps are a good example.

I believe Chevrolet sent the "seconds" into the parts stream back in the day. I had a devil of a time getting nice bumpers for my 1970 when it was only a couple of years old. We sent a couple back to the warehouse in an effort to get the best examples. Those bumpers (none for sale, as Joe says) are still in the wrapping.

I had a complete NOS set of front bumper and grille parts for a 1950 Buick -- ever see the front of one of those? The guy I sold them to said he would have to re-plate them because they just were not good enough. Of course there was a war on (police action for the PC folks) in 1950 and chrome had other uses than automobiles, so they were pretty thin. But I think they were seconds because the car, even with 30 years on it, looked better than the NOS parts.

[Ronald L.]

Re: Air Cleaner Lid

Terry,
Speed could be a variable but I bet as fast as they were hitting these and you would need to hit them now to get the metal to form...not much difference...it is a simple part with hardly any draw.

When you mention bumpers, I had a friend that moved over to buy parts for GMPD, C2 bumpers and every short cut possible is what you got inclusive of sandy chrome. Let's face it, the air cleaner lids had a better chrome job

[Terry M.]

Re: Air Cleaner Lid

Terry,
Speed could be a variable but I bet as fast as they were hitting these and you would need to hit them now to get the metal to form...not much difference...it is a simple part with hardly any draw.

When you mention bumpers, I had a friend that moved over to buy parts for GMPD, C2 bumpers and every short cut possible is what you got inclusive of sandy chrome. Let's face it, the air cleaner lids had a better chrome job

Yes the chrome on the lid was better than bumpers. The shape is simpler and the lid is far less complex to plate.

Back in my youth I spent four years in metallurgical research in a college lab. Our big work (financed by the American Iron and Steel Institute) was lubrication in metal working. For the simple shape of a lid die speed might not be much of a factor, but for rolling and wire drawing it is a big influence. We found some significant differences between various lubricants and the surface condition also played a huge roll. We had our own pickling and phosphating system.

[John H.]

Re: Air Cleaner Lid

We found some significant differences between various lubricants and the surface condition also played a huge roll. We had our own pickling and phosphating system.

Terry -

If you haven't seen one working, you'd enjoy watching a modern 5000-ton tri-axis transfer press running at 16 strokes per minute making doors, hoods, lids, body side apertures, fenders, etc., RH and LH parts in the same die. The fun part is watching a fully-automatic die change in seven minutes with only two people.

I launched the Chrysler-Brampton stamping plant (five Komatsu transfer presses) and the Chrysler-Belvidere stamping plant (five Verson transfer presses); die design, die construction, and stamping technology has come a LONG way in the last 20 years.

[Terry M.]

Re: Air Cleaner Lid

Terry -

If you haven't seen one working, you'd enjoy watching a modern 5000-ton tri-axis transfer press running at 16 strokes per minute making doors, hoods, lids, body side apertures, fenders, etc., RH and LH parts in the same die. The fun part is watching a fully-automatic die change in seven minutes with only two people.

I launched the Chrysler-Brampton stamping plant (five Komatsu transfer presses) and the Chrysler-Belvidere stamping plant (five Verson transfer presses); die design, die construction, and stamping technology has come a LONG way in the last 20 years.

I toured the Willow Springs IL stamping plant just before it closed, but that was in the 1970-1980 time frame -- I think. Since it was closing it probably didn't have the most modern equipment. When I worked in the lab we got to tour some manufacturing facilities, but they were usually forging plants. That stuff is/was one step from the blacksmith shops of yore.

Automated die changes is quite the deal. I saw a video of that operation someplace. Belvidere -- you were close to me. I once got a tour of the Verson plant here in Chicago area when I was with the electric company.