Starter Build Date for 350/350

[Duane D.]

About 10 years ago, I installed a rebuilt starter (1108430 2D24) on my car as the non-original starter could hardly turn the engine over. Recently when my car was judged,I lost points and was told I needed a 1108338 starter with a Pre-March 1970 build date. I have checked ebay and it is easy to find an 8338 starter case properly dated, but most are in poor condition and expensive to rebuild. My question: Will the "guts" of the 1106430 fit inside the 1108338 case ? My 1108430 is in excellent condition.

[Terry M.]

Re: Starter Build Date for 350/350

About 10 years ago, I installed a rebuilt starter (1108430 2D24) on my car as the non-original starter could hardly turn the engine over. Recently when my car was judged,I lost points and was told I needed a 1108338 starter with a Pre-March 1970 build date. I have checked ebay and it is easy to find an 8338 starter case properly dated, but most are in poor condition and expensive to rebuild. My question: Will the "guts" of the 1106430 fit inside the 1108338 case ? My 1108430 is in excellent condition.

I assUme one or more of the bolded numbers in your posting above are a typo. Otherwise you have succeeded in confusing the hell out of me.

Of course that won't matter much because regardless the number I could only guess at the answer.

[Duane D.]

Re: Starter Build Date for 350/350

Terry,

The question should have read: Will the guts of the 1108430 fit inside the case of the 1108338? I'm sorry for the typo.

Duane

[Joe L.]

Re: Starter Build Date for 350/350

Terry,

The question should have read: Will the guts of the 1108430 fit inside the case of the 1108338? I'm sorry for the typo.

Duane

Duane------

If you have an 1108430 on the car now, it must have been reconfigured to 1108338 specs at some time in the past.

Keep in mind that the component of the starter with the part number stamped on it is called the starter FRAME. Most of the frames are interchangeable and this includes across most of the GM car and light truck lines of the day.

The original 1108430 was equipped with an ALUMINUM nose that used a "staggered" bolt pattern and two 4-5/8" bolts for attachment to the block. This type of starter nose will not work with a manual transmission-only L-46. So, the nose on your starter must have been changed to a cast iron nose. This also necessitated the change of other internal components.

I believe the 1108430 was a standard torque starter and I'm absolutely certain the 1108338 was ORIGINALLY a "standard torque" starter. This can all be confirmed by simply checking the location of the field coil hole in the frame. If the starters are standard torque, the holes should be in such a location as to NOT REQUIRE a tubular copper spacer between the field coil terminal and the solenoid. If one or both of the starters have been CONVERTED to "high torque" configuration, there will be a spacer between the field coil terminal and the solenoid.

IF both starters are "standard torque" and with cast iron nose (as they must be), you can exchange the complete "guts" from one to the other with no problem, at all----it's a direct exchange. If the 1108430 has been converted to "high torque" and the 1108338 is still "standard torque", you can still make the swap but you'll have to convert the 1108338 frame to "high torque" configuration. This simply means plugging the existing field terminal hole and drilling another.

[Duane D.]

Re: Starter Build Date for 350/350

Joe, what a wonderful write-up you have given me. I checked my current starter (1108430) and it does have the cast iron head and copper tube connecting the field terminal to the solenoid as you suspected. I do remember the rebuild mechanic telling me to go search through his collection of starter frames and he would make it capable of starting an 11:1 compression ratio engine. I evidently have a high-torque conversion. When I do find an 1108338, do I drill a new hole in the same location as the current starter? Do you have a recommendation on how to plug the existing hole? Thanks. Duane

[Joe L.]

Re: Starter Build Date for 350/350

Joe, what a wonderful write-up you have given me. I checked my current starter (1108430) and it does have the cast iron head and copper tube connecting the field terminal to the solenoid as you suspected. I do remember the rebuild mechanic telling me to go search through his collection of starter frames and he would make it capable of starting an 11:1 compression ratio engine. I evidently have a high-torque conversion. When I do find an 1108338, do I drill a new hole in the same location as the current starter? Do you have a recommendation on how to plug the existing hole? Thanks. Duane

Duane-----

I did a little further research on the 1108430 starter. While it was not a "high torque" starter, it looks to me like it used the same field coils as the "high torque" starter. So, in that case, it would have used the tubular copper spacer between the field coil terminal and the solenoid. Consequently, as far as this part of the starter is concerned, it was not converted. You can also confirm this by noting if there is a plug installed for any previous hole for the terminal. I suspect, though, that you won't find one.

You can still transfer everything from the 1108430 to the 1108338. You will need to drill a new hole for the field coil terminal in the same location as the one on your 1108430. As far as plugging the old hole, there are several ways to do it. One is to use a rubber plug. Another is to install a steel plug. A local starter rebuilder ought to have one or the other or both available. Keep in mind, though, that by doing this you'll be altering the original configuration of the 1108338 starter. The alteration can be discerned in judging due to the tubular copper spacer also installed. Inasmuch as you're concerned about "numbers", you should also be concerned about configuration. There is no way to convert an 1108338 to "high torque" configuration without altering the external appearance as described.

If you transfer everything from the 1108430 starter to the 1108338 frame you still won't necessarily have a "high torque" starter. That will depend upon what armature is installed. If the 1108430 was previously completely converted to the "high torque" configuration, it should have the correct armature for that configuration. If a "standard torque" armature was used, then it won't have the right one. A starter rebuilder should be able to provide the correct one, though, if you need it. The GM piece is discontinued. It cost well over 200 bucks when it was discontinued, so you might not want it anyway.

[John P.]

Re: Starter Build Date for 350/350

It is possible to open a big can of worms with this.The 8338 was originaly equipped with low(standard) torque fields. It can be RE-built with Low torque fields high torque fields OR conversion fields.The conversion fields let you use a high torque armature with a set of fields that exit thru the standard field lead opening.A set of high torque fields can be modified to exit thru the standard torque opening as well(Dad and I have built all our standard torque starters with HT armatures and fields for the last 10 years) We did'nt invent the technique,the rebuild industry has done for years. I bring this up because a sharp chassis judge will spot the field lead hole in the wrong spot and possibly make a deduct.You have options to prevent this from happening and save the hassle of cutting an extra hole (and filling the extra hole)

[Joe L.]

Re: Starter Build Date for 350/350

It is possible to open a big can of worms with this.The 8338 was originaly equipped with low(standard) torque fields. It can be RE-built with Low torque fields high torque fields OR conversion fields.The conversion fields let you use a high torque armature with a set of fields that exit thru the standard field lead opening.A set of high torque fields can be modified to exit thru the standard torque opening as well(Dad and I have built all our standard torque starters with HT armatures and fields for the last 10 years) We did'nt invent the technique,the rebuild industry has done for years. I bring this up because a sharp chassis judge will spot the field lead hole in the wrong spot and possibly make a deduct.You have options to prevent this from happening and save the hassle of cutting an extra hole (and filling the extra hole)

John------


That's great information. I was unaware that the "high torque" fields could be modified so that the terminal would fit through the existing hole in standard torque starters or that conversion fields were available which also allowed this. All of the converted starters I've seen have the existing hole in standard torque frames plugged and a new hole drilled. The sort of conversion you mention solves all problems of having to modify original starter frames.

Are the conversion fields a GM or Delco item, either now or in the past?

[John P.]

Re: Starter Build Date for 350/350

The conversion fields were originally a Delco item.The aftermarket now offers them as well.I(Dad and I)have found that the best combination is the Ht field and Ht armature together. The conversion field does have as much "umphh". Altering the Ht field lead is a simple job and yields great results(and is undetectable on the judging field)

[Duane D.]

Re: Starter Build Date for 350/350

John, is this something that you and your dad do as a business or is there someone that you would recommend that could help me get a high torque starter in an 8338 frame? Duane

[Joe L.]

Re: Starter Build Date for 350/350

John, is this something that you and your dad do as a business or is there someone that you would recommend that could help me get a high torque starter in an 8338 frame? Duane

Duane------

I can tell you, for certain, that John and his father do this sort of work professionally and can certainly do what you want to get done. Their work is the standard of the restoration industry, plain and simple.

[Loren L.]

Re: Starter Build Date for 350/350

For those of us who are not sure about Corvettes made after 1967, can we now routinely count on Judging Field Entertainment of "Somewhat larger than Normal" chassis judges crawling deep into the bowels of these cars???

[John P.]

Re: Starter Build Date for 350/350

Loren ......YES

[Dick W.]

Re: Starter Build Date for 350/350

The good thing about the Pirkle high torque conversions is that if your car will not start, you can use the starter to get you to town

Seriously, we have had one of these conversions on the boss lady's '72 bb for about 10 years. No matter how hot the engine is, it will turn it over

[John P.]

Re: Starter Build Date for 350/350

Dick is refering to a Super torque conversion.It is a non standard upgrade service(extra cost). An S.T. starter is a tough unit,as Dick says.