Should I plate my nuts and washers or buy new?

[Michael L.]

Guys,

I'm getting ready to start plating the hardware for my 69 coupe resto and I'm thinking of only doing the bolts and just replacing the washers (flat and lock) and nuts. The only distinguishing characteristics are on the bolts so I thought it would be whole lot easier to source some new grade 5 nuts and washers. This, of course, only applies to the generic washers/nuts. I will plate any nuts/washers that are unique and cannot be replaced. What do you guys think?

Mike

[Chuck G.]

Re: Should I plate my nuts and washers or buy new?

Good question, Mike. I'd be interested in hearing some of the responses, especially to your question about the lock washers.

It's been said that "back in the day" GM used "non knurled" lock washers, meaning that the exposed edges of the lock washers are smooth.

Many/most of today's lock washers have a "cross hatch" knurled (or is in gnurled ) edge.

Has to do with the manufacturing process, and I'm no injuneer.

I've seen MAINLY smooth lock washers, but I've seen knurled/cross hatched ones too on original cars.

Same question holds for solid axles and midyears too.

Chuck

[James W.]

Re: Should I plate my nuts and washers or buy new?

Good question, Mike. I'd be interested in hearing some of the responses, especially to your question about the lock washers.

It's been said that "back in the day" GM used "non knurled" lock washers, meaning that the exposed edges of the lock washers are smooth.

Many/most of today's lock washers have a "cross hatch" knurled (or is in gnurled ) edge.

Has to do with the manufacturing process, and I'm no injuneer.

I've seen MAINLY smooth lock washers, but I've seen knurled/cross hatched ones too on original cars.

Same question holds for solid axles and midyears too.

Chuck

When I restored my 71 I sent boxes of nuts, bolts and washers out to be plated. Some of the bolts are very hard to come by, especially with the correct plating. Springs or anything else made of spring steel should not be replated, as it tends to make them brittle and they could fail over time. I did replate lock washers and have not had any trouble with them, but maybe I'm lucky (probably not). Finding a local plater to do quality work and not lose your parts is difficult. John Wood had made up a guide for where his hardware went and what it was plated with. His car and mine were born within two weeks of each other. I used his guide and modified it some to suit my car, which was a 4-speed (his was an auto). If you like, I could send you the blank pages I made up so I could digitize the inventory.

Jim

[Chuck S.]

Re: Should I plate my nuts and washers or buy new?

...I'm getting ready to start plating the hardware for my 69 coupe resto and I'm thinking of only doing the bolts and just replacing the washers (flat and lock) and nuts. The only distinguishing characteristics are on the bolts so I thought it would be whole lot easier to source some new grade 5 nuts and washers. This, of course, only applies to the generic washers/nuts. I will plate any nuts/washers that are unique and cannot be replaced. What do you guys think?...

My first plan was to refinish everything without obvious corrosion damage, except for cut lock washers. Cut lock washers grow tired and lose their "spring" over the years; plus, they represent a lot of tedious refinishing activity that could be replaced cheaply.

However, I found even that was not a simple plan. Regardless of obvious identifying marks, "they just don't make them like they used too". There are many characteristics of fasteners that are just unknown to lay people (e.g. class of fit). Further, some of the fasteners found on your Corvette cannot be bought at the usual retail stores: Have you ever seen a 5/16" or 7/16" bolt in Home Depot?...Or a 7/8" length screw? The answer is no, because they don't exist...a 3/4" or 1" inch screw will generally serve the public's purpose as well as a 7/8" screw.

During inventory of my cut lock washers, I found GM had specified multiple weights, or thicknesses, of lock washers in the SAME SIZES when used in different applications. The highest strength applications are more likely to use a thick, heavy duty lock washer, sometimes with the knurling Chuck describes. There is a big difference between the lightest and heaviest duty lock washers.

Your Corvette, and all GM cars of that era, were custom designed machines with exactly what fastener was required. Maybe the fastener was out of GM's vast fastener spec catalog, but it was exactly what the engineer's thought was needed at that location for purpose and assembly. With GM's buying power, GM engineers could pretty much use the ideal fastener; and it wouldn't cost any more to get it right.

Further, most retail fasteners are zinc plated these days. If you want the black finishes preferred by GM engineers, you'll have to first strip the fasteners before you can phosphate them. If you strip or replate fasteners, you need to be completely informed on hydrogen embrittlement and the process needed to drive off the hydrogen; you ruin your fasteners otherwise. Industrial sources, instead of commercial stores, are more likely to have the sizes, thicknesses, lengths, type heads and finishes that you need. I doubt you'll find the same headmarks, and you will have to purchase in minimum quantities of the bulk containers they sell...if you need one, you may have to buy 100 to get that one.

Besides...as much as possible, I want to keep my Corvette original with the same fasteners it came with; otherwise, I might be horrified to learn some Chinese DNA has sneaked into an American classic.

[Patrick N.]

Re: Should I plate my nuts and washers or buy new?

Similar story as Chuck's, I'm doing a complete frame off for my 68 and I planed to replate as much hardware as possible to save money and keep originality. Needless to say, I have been purchasing new or NOS because I am concerned about the mechanical integrity of the existing hardware. Too many fasteners are pitted on my car.

even if replated, some bolts can only be stressed onced when torqued, lock washers lose their "spring" etc.

additionally, thickness of washers is challenging to match. A recent thread on washer thickness for seat supports galvanized this point for me (no bad pun intended).

for me, I will have my car judged and I am chasing down as many correct fasteners as I can replace, but if it cant be easily found I would much rather know my car is mechanically sound and take a slight deduction if I could not find a correct replacement.

I do belive that just about everything one needs is out there somewhere. The question is how much will it cost me??

[Pat M.]

Re: Should I plate my nuts and washers or buy new?

I usually try to leave my nuts natural.

[Joe L.]

Re: Should I plate my nuts and washers or buy new?

All-----


As far as most BOLTS go, the GM piece either was never available in SERVICE or is now discontinued. Even if it's still available under the original part number, the manufacturer's ID headmarking will almost always be different than original.

However, many NUTS and WASHERS are still available under their original part number. Are they the same as original in every nuance of detail? Some are and some aren't. They all meet the GM specification for the original part number, though. They're also usually quite expensive these days.

[Michael L.]

Re: Should I plate my nuts and washers or buy new?

I expected that some of the unusual sizes would have to be sourced on the internet (or the old ones reused), but most of the nuts/washers that I am talking about are very generic in size and appearance. I'm lucky that all of the bolts are in good shape and look great after a day in my tumbler, they hardly need plating at all. I'm plating all of this stuff at home and have read quite alot about the issues mentioned (hydrogen) and feel confident that I can address them. I understand about the originallity, which makes me want to keep and plate everything, but is this practical? I will have this car judged so I want it to be right, but would most judges be able to tell that some of the nuts/washers are not original?

ML

[Grant W.]

Re: Should I plate my nuts and washers or buy new?

Well if I judged your car and you used replacement bolts nuts and washers, I would give a deduction.
Searching for all the correct nuts and bolts is part of the fun. I have about 200 lbs of nuts and bolts all from various years. Came from a closed out corvette shop.
I have restored and replated all the correct nuts and bolts. Real Anal!!! But when done I have a "correct" as possible car as it came from the assembly line.
Part of the fun is finding the right part especially when my car was a basket case. Also I feel the value would be much higher having all the correct parts. Unfortunately original untouched cars are hard to find these days.
Thanks, Grant

[Chuck S.]

Re: Should I plate my nuts and washers or buy new?

...most of the nuts/washers that I am talking about are very generic in size and appearance...I understand about the originallity, which makes me want to keep and plate everything, but is this practical?...(will) most judges be able to tell that some of the nuts/washers are not original...

In the case of cut lockwashers, the difference in thickness should be determined using a digital caliper rather than "eyeballed". If you don't have a digital caliper, I highly recommend you get one...you will find you use it often and it will cost less than $20 at HF, with two batteries included.

Reusing everything is the ideal goal, but that means all the hardware, cut lock washers included, had to have been bagged and tagged together when it came off the car, such that you know specifically what went where. Inspect each piece of hardware for reuse on a case by case basis.

You may find some cut lock washers are flattened into a flat plane; you will not get much "locking" out of those washers; they should be replaced with identical size/thickness/finish, or...if you can't find a good replacement candidate, use an old "shade tree mechanic" trick: simply "bend" the cut ends back apart slightly and reuse...it will probably work until the next time it's removed. If any stripping, plating, or phosphating is done to cut lock washers, I would put them through the same annealing process as the high strength fasteners.

[Jim W.]

Re: Should I plate my nuts and washers or buy new?

I personally like to soak my small hardware overnight in one of the gentle rust removers. There is NO abrasive action, can do in small batches as parts are removed, and are ready the same or next day to reinstall or tag and bag as in my case. I also kinda like the patina of a cleaned part. I guess i've been lucky with my So. Ca car, as what is not well coated in protective grease and gunk only has superficial surface rust. This 64 has been a pleasure when it comes to removing and cleaning componets.

[Michael L.]

Re: Should I plate my nuts and washers or buy new?

Thanks, guys. As I said in one of my earlier posts, I'm lucky that the bolts are all in good shape and can be reused. That I know is the major issue as far as "correct" is concerned. My question was really about just the generic flat/lock washers and nuts, but if I need to I can simply reuse the stuff that I have, and I will clean and plate them along with the bolts. It really isn't that hard, but I was just trying to be at least a LITTLE practical about this whole thing. I do have everything sorted and labled so that won't be an issue.

ML

[Ian G.]

Re: Should I plate my nuts and washers or buy new?

Most judges I talk to do not deduct for repro bolts and nuts, etc. Which I'm pretty happy about, because a good portion of my bolts were heavily rusted. The car being from VA and MA. I'm going to have to pay special attention to my lock washers though. This is the first I've heard about different thicknesses in the same size washer... I cataloged everything but have it all in one bag per plating type to be replated. I just don't have the room to replate everything. barely have the room to fully disassemble the car

Original bolts easily run you $3-8 a piece. I OJed at the 2009 San Jose national and never saw a single mention of deducting for repop bolts, unless they were specifically mentioned in the guide. not much return on investment. But I can definitely understand the peace of mind.

[John D.]

Re: Should I plate my nuts and washers or buy new?

I didn't read all the posts. But I can tell you if you were to send your washers and other hardware to my plater for cadmium ,etc he would bake them after plating at 375 degrees for X amount of time and rack you 20 bucks to do so. Failure to have the parts baked will most certainly result in split lock washers breaking.
Now getting old rusty split locks replated is a complete waste. Buy nice new ones. You can buy them smooth or knurled. Just have to hunt to match yours.
Flat washers. Many of our Corvette flat washers were SAE unlike typical hardware store variety that are much larger and thicker.
Reusing old hardware can be quite dangerour you know. Good for show but now safe for everyday driving. If the bolt you are going to reuse is for steering or suspension be careful for sure.
Our Pittsburgh chapter was lucky enough years back to have a manufacturer put on a display at a tech session of what happens when you reuse bolts and nuts. I mean it was pretty scary how easily how expensive original logo bolts broke. JD