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Interesting find

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  • David H.
    Expired
    • November 11, 2009
    • 777

    #16
    Re: Interesting find

    The car is Roman Red inside and out.
    Attached Files

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    • Joe M.
      Very Frequent User
      • February 1, 2005
      • 589

      #17
      Re: Interesting find

      David,

      A quandry. In your first photo, ivory, I see a pop rivet in the upper left corner. Just checked my 61 and all the rivets are round heads. Hmmm?

      Is that original paint?

      Typically on the trunk floor the ribs of the mat will wear through the paint?

      Also on the passenger floor do you see a pattern of bare fiberglass where the the map tray was placed and sprayed? Typically the floor got a light overspray vs a coat of paint. Just curious as to the painter's attention to detail.

      Joe

      Comment

      • David H.
        Expired
        • November 11, 2009
        • 777

        #18
        Re: Interesting find

        The rivets you speak of are all the same on both sides of the car in these spots. The originals may have been ground off and replaced with these but cant be sure on that.
        The car has definately been painted twice that I know of. My brother did it once, and the previous owner that I contacted painted it in the early '70s. He had no idea that the car was ever white.
        I have included some more pictures. The passengers floor as you mentioned interest in and what I think is the orginal paint in the trunk that has flaked off in one spot showing bare metal underneath.
        This has really got me baffled. A mystery indeed!
        Thanks for the responses.
        Attached Files

        Comment

        • Steven B.
          Extremely Frequent Poster
          • June 30, 1982
          • 3976

          #19
          Re: Interesting find

          David, you might try behind the door hinges but it appears you have done a very thorough job already. You are corrcet, this is very . Is there any overspray under the blackout in the wheelwells, or is there any original blackout left after all these years?

          Steve

          Comment

          • Joe M.
            Very Frequent User
            • February 1, 2005
            • 589

            #20
            Re: Interesting find

            Car's birthday April 1st????

            Sure looks red to me.

            how about in the upper inside glove box compartment?

            check under door light switch?

            overspray under dash and trunk looks original red

            Comment

            • Joe M.
              Very Frequent User
              • February 1, 2005
              • 589

              #21
              Re: Interesting find

              How many workers per shift were entrusted to record the cars color on the bulheads. Say for 61/62 would it have been the same 3 +/- guys theoretically ?

              Guess if everyone had 'the green crayon' we'd be reporting a lot of interesting messages scrawled here and there on these old cars.

              Would be neat to collect photos showing the green crayon marks denoting the color on the solid axle bulkheads. Just for fun....to look for similarities and differences. note the big R on the 60....Where is Monk when we need him?

              Here is another Ivory on a 60

              Comment

              • Jerry W.
                Very Frequent User
                • January 27, 2009
                • 588

                #22
                Re: Interesting find

                JOE....I'm not a hand writing expert....But the "R" in your 60 post is very unique and seems the same script as the "R" in the "red" notation on our 62
                Attached Files

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                • John M.
                  Very Frequent User
                  • November 1, 1988
                  • 170

                  #23
                  Re: Interesting find

                  David,

                  If you are going so far as to replace the dash pad in your restoration you might find your answer. When the car was originally painted on the assembly line the dash pad and windshield were not in place and the top of the bare fiberglass dash got a coat of exterior color-coat paint. This was followed by glue for the dash pad and then the pad itself. I highly doubt that any repainter would have removed the padded dash, but if they did and did not completely strip the original paint and glue the repaint should be on top of the glue and the original color under the glue. Try removing the radio speaker and see what you can see around the speaker hole in the fiberglass by pushing the pad out of the way a bit if you can so you can get a peek at the fiberglass dash top.

                  By the way, if you are removing the dash pad you can also look for one of the several Job/Broadcast numbers (all the same number) for the car by using the same technique you used to find IVORY under the paint behind the passenger seat. The J/B number is also written in green crayon and was written on the top of the bare fiberglass dash next to the mirror base and then color-coated over when the car was painted.

                  One question I have though is why you didn't find IVORY (Ermine White) paint under the Red repaint(?) on the fiberglass panel where you found the green crayon paint name IVORY? If this panel had been stripped of all original IVORY paint for the repaint in Red, then the green crayon wording should have been stripped also or at least made very unreadable

                  Save the Wave ---------

                  JG Mattson

                  Comment

                  • David H.
                    Expired
                    • November 11, 2009
                    • 777

                    #24
                    Re: Interesting find

                    Thanks very much for your suggestions, all good ones indeed.
                    I pulled the speaker and grill out today but could not peel the dash pad back enough to see anyting. It is in pretty good condition so I dont want to destroy it.
                    I agee with you that if all Ivory paint was removed from the bulkhead behind the seat, why is the green Ivory lettering still there? Non of this makes any sense. There should be Ivory paint on this car somewhere but it is not showing up. If it never got Ivory paint, then why is it written on the bulkhead and why did it get painted red. One senario I have heard is that if the car was an ordered car, the customer could have changed thier minds on the color they wanted before it got painted and the order was changed on the line. That seems a bit of a stretch to me but who knows. I would love to hear what some of the old time Corvetters have to theorize about this. It will drive me nuts till I hear something that makes sense.
                    My thought is that since it says it was suppose to be IVORY that I should repaint it IVORY. What is the consensus?

                    Comment

                    • Steven B.
                      Extremely Frequent Poster
                      • June 30, 1982
                      • 3976

                      #25
                      Re: Interesting find

                      David, possibly the "IVORY" marking was in error and caught before paint and the crayon mark not changed since there is absolutely no Ermine White anywhere. Most repaints do not include removing the windshield frame, drip rails, removing overspray from the interior, etc. where you have found no white. Since the bulkhead is not judged I would repaint Roman Red. It seems a good chance that was the factory color. It sounds as if you have one of many St. Louis anomolies. Good mystery, and a good Restorer article.

                      I found numerous traces of black on each piece of my Polo White hardtop stainless but not a trace on the fiberglass inside or out when I repainted it---and the hardtop has the original rivets in place.


                      Steve

                      Comment

                      • John M.
                        Very Frequent User
                        • November 1, 1988
                        • 170

                        #26
                        Re: Interesting find

                        David,





                        from the Build Sheet, so the questions become:
                        1. Was 923 typed on the Build Sheet and then misread by the guy with the green crayon to mean IVORY, and so written only to be found out and corrected later down the line at the paint station? or
                        2. Was 936 typed on the Build Sheet and correctly written as IVORY by the guy with the green crayon only to have the order color changed for some reason before the car entered the paint station? and if so ----

                        .....B. Maybe also there was a problem with the supply of Ermine White paint or the equipment at that particular time, and instead of shutting down the assembly line to repair equipment or get another supply of Ermine White paint an executive decision was made to keep the line going and paint this car Red ---- everybody likes a Red Corvette (All Corvettes are RED) and a down line costs the company MONEY.





                        Save the Wave -----

                        JG Mattson

                        Comment

                        • William L.
                          Very Frequent User
                          • December 1, 1988
                          • 944

                          #27
                          Re: Interesting find

                          There are a couple of clues that lead me to believe that your was taken apart and sprayed red. The picture of the door hinge, Ive never seen paint from the factory where there is that much paint way down inside the hinge opening. The other picture that caught my eye is how much of the inner door is red. Most of the time there is little paint on the inner door.
                          My guess is someone did a really good paint job with the doors off. I would think that your car was ivory. But the factory did make mistakes..
                          Just my guess.
                          Bill Lacy
                          1967 427/435 National Top Flight Bloomington Gold
                          1998 Indy Pacecar

                          Comment

                          • David H.
                            Expired
                            • November 11, 2009
                            • 777

                            #28
                            Re: Interesting find

                            Thanks to all for your thoughts on this one.
                            I got a call today from Woody the previous owner that I found. He tells me that he ran a body and paint shop in the 60s and that he was the one that painted the car back then. He assures me that he took everything off the car to paint it including replacing the dash pad and that he would stake his life that the car never had any white paint on it from the factory. He even replaced the windshield and found nothing but red paint. I am inclined to agree with him as today I pulled the front and rear bumpers and grill off and found nothing but red overspray if anything.
                            So, for now it's a Roman Red car but I like the fact that according to the bulkhead writing it was suppose to be IVORY. Makes for a cool story and gives me the option to go that way if I want to and still within my rights to call it original.
                            I did happen to find the number 59 hand written under the dash above the speedometer today. Dont know what that means tho.
                            Thanks again for all the input. I am getting quite an education and really enjoying the work.
                            Attached Files

                            Comment

                            • Joe M.
                              Very Frequent User
                              • February 1, 2005
                              • 589

                              #29
                              Re: Interesting find

                              that 59 is the job number....saw it on both doors, top of the dash and a few other places on my 61

                              Comment

                              • John M.
                                Very Frequent User
                                • November 1, 1988
                                • 170

                                #30
                                Re: Interesting find

                                David,

                                on the car from the start and will identify the car on the assembly line until the point where the legal VIN is attached to the car. Copy pages of the Build Sheet were Broadcast (sent) to sub-assembly stations that assembled component parts for the car which were marked with the J/B number in green crayon before sending them to meet the same J/B numbered body on the assembly line. If things went as planned this pretty much assured that the correct parts and options would end up on the proper car as called for on the Build Sheet. The J/B number in the speedometer dome made sure the correct color instrument cluster with the correct red-line tachometer for the engine option got sent to the right car. The J/B number written in green crayon on the inside fiberglass surface of the doors (maybe only one) under the trim panel was to make sure the car got the correct doors with or without the power window option. The J/B numbers were used consecutively(?) from 1 to 500 on the assembly line until 500 was reached, and then they started over again at 1 and then continued to repeat 1 -500 over and over until the end of production. You cannot however determine a J/B number from a VIN or a VIN from a J/B number. I know this because this is a pet project of mine. Work the numbers on your own car and see if they come out right or how far off they are.



                                Can you go back to any other previous owners? Ask Woody where the past owner trail goes.

                                By the way, if your car was hardtop optioned you should also find a green crayon HT in the same area as IVORY.

                                Save the Wave .........

                                JG Mattson

                                Comment

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