How good is Department of Motor Vehicle documentation?

[Jim D.]

Re: How good is Department of Motor Vehicle documentation?

Real documents that record the real history. Great stuff in my opinion. What more could ya want !!

How about a POP, window sticker, dealer invoice etc., etc., you know, the good stuff that actually documents how the car was originally. I suppose DMV stuff has some value, but to me, not much.

[Greg A.]

Re: How good is Department of Motor Vehicle documentation?

Just a quick add-on...about 10 years ago I made the same inquiry of the Oregon DMV for my car. They sent a nice packet of copies of all the registration and title changes. It turns out it was an original CA car that was wholesaled after the first owner traded it in and it came to OR.

Funny thing was that privacy laws required the DMV to white out the owner name and address on everything. These were the old multi-part forms with thin paper and they photocopied both sides of everything. When the reverse was copied, the other side showed through as well and the copies fairly clearly showed what was under the white-out. I just held them up in a mirror and could read the owners name.

I ended up with a copy of the CA original pink slip (which was turned in to title the car in OR). I had the owner's name and business (which had since closed), but later had his son contact me through the internet and I eventually spoke to his father, the original owner.

So these DMV records can be valuable leads in confirming owner history...keep them all.

[Bill M.]

Re: How good is Department of Motor Vehicle documentation?

dont let anyone rain on your parade what you have means tons most have nothing my 67 has a package from texas and i am happy

[Tom H.]

Re: How good is Department of Motor Vehicle documentation?

How about a POP, window sticker, dealer invoice etc., etc., you know, the good stuff that actually documents how the car was originally. I suppose DMV stuff has some value, but to me, not much.

I realize that factory stuff is the ultimate documentation, but real history with names, prices and trade ins are great.

For most of these old cars, the history is gone. Any clue from the past that you can get is great. For this owner, I say his paperwork is awesome.

[Patrick T.]

Re: How good is Department of Motor Vehicle documentation?

Patrick,
Your Corvette Order Copy is interesting. I have not seen one with something lined out and replaced with something else. I could understand it as tire/wheel swap is easy to adjust for. I would not believe it if it was and engine change.......

Change had to be made prior to body drop to be on tank sticker. Is it on shipper paper too?

Do you know if the car was ordered with red lines and later amended prior to delivery with wsw?

Could this have been a dealer floor plan car?

I'm assuming the original owner received it with wsw.

Gene, the original owner told me that he had ordered the car with "red stripe" tires. It seems, like John said, that when the car was on the assembly line they were out of redline tires that day and to keep the line moving, they mounted on WSW (white side walls). The RN (revision notice) was noted on the sticker for the bean counters, since they had to keep track of everything. I don't have the shipping copy or the original POP.

The original owner told me in an email that when he went to the dealer to pick up his new car, he refused to take it with WSW, he wanted redlines. So the dealer drove the car down the street to a Firestone dealer and they mounted redlines on the car. The he took the car. BTW, he is still alive and his phone number is in the WVA phone directory. He was 18 when he bought the car and had to work two jobs to pay for it. He really wanted a 427/435 but his insurance man said absolutely NO!!! So he had to settle with an L-79 and got a few options. PT

[Patrick T.]

How good is Department of Motor Vehicle documentation?

Just for grins, here is page two. Again, I had to "blue out" the owners name. The Chevrolet Motor Division delivered the car to Ideal Chevrolet on July 21, 1967 and the new owner picked it up from the dealer the next day. My VIN #22526 is very late, which coincides with the July delivery date. PT

[Gene M.]

Re: How good is Department of Motor Vehicle documentation?

Patrick,
That is cool that you were in touch with the first owner and got the whole story on the tires. It's always nice to have the tale behind the facts. Thanks for the interesting story.

[Gary C.]

Re: How good is Department of Motor Vehicle documentation?

I seem to recall one of Mr. Grenning's excellent presentations where he detailed the red line tire line outs and replacement with WSW. I recall it was significantly more than a days time span that all looked like Patrick's tank sticker and he had enough tank sticker copies to know the approximate span of time that the tires were not available. Among other things such info could sometimes help distinguish the authentic paper from the other types!

[Jim D.]

Re: How good is Department of Motor Vehicle documentation?

I realize that factory stuff is the ultimate documentation, but real history with names, prices and trade ins are great.

For most of these old cars, the history is gone. Any clue from the past that you can get is great. For this owner, I say his paperwork is awesome.

Agreed. Anything is better than nothing. I must be spoiled. I bought my 65 from the original owner who kept EVERYTHING (even the punch card from the dealer for 6 free oil changes, not valuable but kind of cool). I suppose it is rare to be able to document the car from the day it was ordered.

[Tom H.]

Re: How good is Department of Motor Vehicle documentation?

Agreed. Anything is better than nothing. I must be spoiled. I bought my 65 from the original owner who kept EVERYTHING (even the punch card from the dealer for 6 free oil changes, not valuable but kind of cool). I suppose it is rare to be able to document the car from the day it was ordered.

You are spoiled ! A package like you have is only a dream !! You are one of the lucky ones.

Did the original owner get all of the free oil changes, or do you have a couple coming !! ??

[Kenny C.]

Re: How good is Department of Motor Vehicle documentation?

Patrick, aside from a proclivity of civil servants for misspelling, and the total lack of initiative to fix errors, what could be wrong with DMV records?

Unless the records from another car are falsely doctored to represent a car as more "documented", such documents are the official record of when ownership changed hands. I would probably prefer the full official registration record as provenance to written owner statements.

About the only way such records could really be in error (besides the angle already mentioned) is if a change in ownership was deliberately not reported or delayed by a purchaser to avoid paying sales taxes. I've seen this done by cheap azzes, but it was/is a lot less likely when a third-party dealer was involved in the tranaction.

Hey Chuck whats with this word? What no inclination to correct it? You must have worked for DMV at some point right? LOL

[Jim D.]

Re: How good is Department of Motor Vehicle documentation?

You are spoiled ! A package like you have is only a dream !! You are one of the lucky ones.

Did the original owner get all of the free oil changes, or do you have a couple coming !! ??

He only used 2 of the 6. Imagine the look of the service manager if I pulled in and presented the card.

[William H.]

Re: How good is Department of Motor Vehicle documentation?

How good is it? I think everyone wished that had this kind of documentation!!

[Chuck S.]

Re: How good is Department of Motor Vehicle documentation?

"...I've seen this done by cheap azzes, but it was/is a lot less likely when a third-party dealer was involved in the tranaction."

Hey Chuck whats with this word? What no inclination to correct it? You must have worked for DMV at some point right? LOL

Mmmmm...No. My observation was that I would have needed a lobotomy (?) and electroshock treatment to dumb me down and disincentivize(?) me enough to fill those people's jobs.

I always correct my spelling and grammar errors if I see them. Some here may have observed that I am likely to make multiple "edits" to get it right.

Besides...Posts on the TDB are not a legal document...not unless someone takes umbrage and is litigious enough to sue me. In cases where you are likely to have to provide proof of ownership using another means of identification (with your name spelled correctly), such errors could cause you problems; except that most everyone knew that careless and uncorrected typos in government documents were commonplace in the days before word processors.

A possibly interesting anecdote on such errors: My last name is misspelled on my original birth certificate. Trust me...even in grade school, it's irritating as hell to have to convince someone in authority that you really do know how to spell your last name, and that the clerk that typed your birth certificate screwed it up.

[Patrick T.]

Re: How good is Department of Motor Vehicle documentation?

Mmmmm...No. My observation was that I would have needed a lobotomy (?) and electroshock treatment to dumb me down and disincentivize(?) me enough to fill those people's jobs.

Chuck, if it's one thing I hate, it's dealing with those wicked blue hair ladies at the Maryland DMV. Everytime I go there, they always tell me "my papers are not in order"!! like some SS Colonel.

That day in 1999 when I called the WVA DMV in Charleston, I guess I really got lucky to get connected to the nicest lady, with a southern drawl. She was very friendly and helpful. When I told her I was doing some historical research on '67 Corvette, she starts telling me about the '67 Camaro her and her husband were restoring.

I picked up on this really quick and started asking all sorts of questions about her car and it's history, how far along the restoration was going. She talked my ear off for maybe 15 minutes and I told her I thought her car was really gonna be nice when finished. I really kissed up to her and I know she was in a good mood and I also think that is why I got such a mother lode of of documentation! PT