My Engine Found!!!

[Howell J.]

Re: My Engine Found!!!

ZZ502 GM Performance Parts Catalog crate engine. Very complete. 502 cubic inches. 502 HP. Aluminum heads, intake manifold, water pump. Roller rocker cam. $9200. 1 year warranty.

[Pat M.]

Re: My Engine Found!!!

It sounds like lots of money, but possibily you could work something afforadable out. It would sure be a shame to let the original engine move on and get separated from the car again. A '68 big block like yours may be worthy of restoration some day even if it needs lots of work.

This would be my attitude. You don't even have to put the original engine back in the car, or do anything else to it, right now. But if you pass it may be lost forever. JMHO

[Scott S.]

Re: My Engine Found!!!

I think the N509 is a rebuilders stamp. I need opinions on a couple things. He says the block is bored .060. On most engines I would worry about heating problems with that much overbore. Also, the N509 stamp worries me. This would be a judging problem, wouldn't it. Thanks again, everyone

Larry,

It was mentioned by Patrick (post 13) that the rebuilder stamp (i.e, "N509") is a common thing. Hopefully, the person who has the engine can provide you with the contact information for the engine builder who added this stamp to the engine pad. If you decide to negotiate a purchase of the engine, you might want to first contact the engine builder to:

A) verify that he stamped "N509" on the engine pad

B) have him document this fact in writing, with copy of dated receipt for engine work (affidavit, notarized, whatever the experts here suggest). Such documentation would then be your answer and evidence, any time the "N509" on the engine pad might be questioned.

[Patrick H.]

Re: My Engine Found!!!

Larry,

It was mentioned by Patrick (post 13) that the rebuilder stamp (i.e, "N509") is a common thing. Hopefully, the person who has the engine can provide you with the contact information for the engine builder who added this stamp to the engine pad. If you decide to negotiate a purchase of the engine, you might want to first contact the engine builder to:

A) verify that he stamped "N509" on the engine pad

B) have him document this fact in writing, with copy of dated receipt for engine work (affidavit, notarized, whatever the experts here suggest). Such documentation would then be your answer and evidence, any time the "N509" on the engine pad might be questioned.

Why?
What would it benefit?

You could bring 5 books of documentation of the rebuild and it won't affect judging at all - assuming that's what you're after. It might affect the value of the motor to know what's inside, but an affidavit about the stamping is worth zilch.

As stated previously, they are not at all uncommon and how it got there means little at this time. There should never be any questioning as to the stamp - as Tonawanda didn't place it there. The original stamps are there as are the broach marks and those are what are judged.

Patrick

[Scott S.]

Re: My Engine Found!!!

Why?
What would it benefit?

You could bring 5 books of documentation of the rebuild and it won't affect judging at all - assuming that's what you're after. It might affect the value of the motor to know what's inside, but an affidavit about the stamping is worth zilch.

As stated previously, they are not at all uncommon and how it got there means little at this time. There should never be any questioning as to the stamp - as Tonawanda didn't place it there. The original stamps are there as are the broach marks and those are what are judged.

Patrick

Hi Patrick,

Suppose Larry buys this engine and puts it in his car. Every time someone examines the engine pad, and compares it to what the books say should be there, a question about "N509" is going to be asked: "what's that?"

Instead of relating some vague (and at some point, unverifiable) story about what a previous owner told you that some engine builder on the other side of the country supposedly did, once upon a time, you could actually document that XYZ Engine Rebuilders added that "N509" mark when they rebuilt the engine in 2009 - here's the receipt, and here's the notarized statement. It answers the question completely and explains the anomaly.

Engine stamp pads can be a touchy subject, for a variety of reasons. If it was me, I'd want to be sure to have a complete and well-documented answer to the "what are those extra numbers on your engine pad" question, if I was spending the money to reacquire the numbers-matching big-block engine for my car.

It's not about documenting the internal parts of the rebuild, it's about being able to satisfy potential future inquiries about the originality of the block itself. Considering the value attached to a numbers-matching engine, and the associated practice of re-stamping for that very reason, and other related issues, I would want to cover all the bases with documentation for any extra "numbers" on the engine pad that weren't there when it left the factory.

To someone like yourself with a wealth of knowledge and experience, it might not be a big deal if you went to look at this car in the future with the intention of buying it, and saw "N509" on the engine pad. But to the average person who may have done enough homework to know what SHOULD be on the engine pad, and enough homework to know there is a lot of misrepresentation going on in the world, I'd want to have a documented answer to that very reasonable question.

[David L.]

Re: My Engine Found!!!

Given the fact that your car sounds like a nice driver and will require significant money to bring back to original, I think you need to decide if this car should be looked at strictly as a driver and if you want an original car your money could be better spent persuing a better starting point. I was faced with a similar situation several years ago and kept my modified 64 as a driver and recently bought an all original 66 from the original owner. The money I saved by not restoring the 64 was much better spent on the 66 which is now in the beginning stages of a complete restoration. I hope this helps in some way.

[Larry S.]

Re: My Engine Found!!!

Thanks to everyone for their input. I know the owner wants more than the engine can be worth, and I understand his position. He has apparently paid some really high prices for the work he has done. I will try to work something out with him, but don't have really high hope. I've bought and sold tons of big block parts and engines over the years, so I know pretty much the real values, but it is apparently my original engine and I'll try to put something together to buy it for a reasonable price. I'll post the eventual results. Thanks again for your comments. Larry

[Frederick W.]

Re: My Engine Found!!!

Is it a financial question or a car question.

Financially, you will not recoup anywhere near your investment at a price of 10K or even 5K most likely, assuming costs of transport and install.

On the other hand, the car will be much improved by having an original numbers matching 427. A very nice car to own. I'm sure you will enjoy it immensely.

So it depends on what is most important. To many people a cost of $10K would be virtually unnoticeable to their net worth, to others that is a lot of money. You'll have to weigh this for your own personal situation, whether it is worth it to you.

Just realize, either way, that it will be a money loser unless you own it a very long time. Nothing wrong with that, though.