Trim Tag Deviation - Judging Points

[David S.]

Hi Guys,

Cans someone tell me the points deduct for a trim tag deviation. The car in question is a standard interior but currently has leather seat covers. That is the only deviation from original.

Thanks,
Dave

[Tom H.]

Re: Trim Tag Deviation - Judging Points

From page 8 of my 5th edition 63-64 manual. I think this should answer the question.

[Brian M.]

Re: Trim Tag Deviation - Judging Points

Word on the street is that a BIG change on TT's is here.

From page 8 of my 5th edition 63-64 manual. I think this should answer the question.

[Gene M.]

Re: Trim Tag Deviation - Judging Points

Dave,
It is my understanding the deduction should occur for the leather seats and not the trim tag. Assuming the tag is original the seat covers were changed. The judging guide makes a standard deduction for incorrect material as I recall.

[Michael W.]

Re: Trim Tag Deviation - Judging Points

Word on the street is that a BIG change on TT's is here.

Funny, I heard that too. Wonder if it's true.

[William C.]

Re: Trim Tag Deviation - Judging Points

That has been my understanding for the last 25 years or so, if the trim tag is original then the deduction for the anomaly it taken on the originality of the item being judged.

[Joel F.]

Re: Trim Tag Deviation - Judging Points

Funny, I heard that too. Wonder if it's true.

Ok, I'll bite: what did you guys hear, and what is changing and what is prompting the change?

[Terry M.]

Re: Trim Tag Deviation - Judging Points

Word on the street is that a BIG change on TT's is here.

It is no secret. And it is not coming, it is here. Roy announced it at Gettysburg, Des Moines and Concord. I think that makes it kind of official.

If the VIN or Trim Tag is determined to not be authentic -- the car will be disqualified from judging in NCRS.

Please note that is NOT the situation the OP described -- at least as I understand his post.

[Pat M.]

Re: Trim Tag Deviation - Judging Points

It is no secret. And it is not coming, it is here. Roy announced it at Gettysburg, Des Moines and Concord. I think that makes it kind of official.

If the VIN or Trim Tag is determined to not be authentic -- the car will be disqualified from judging in NCRS.

Please note that is NOT the situation the OP described -- at least as I understand his post.

Interesting. So does this mean these are two items NCRS will be "authenticating" if a car is accepted for judging? Just askin'.

[Terry M.]

Re: Trim Tag Deviation - Judging Points

Interesting. So does this mean these are two items NCRS will be "authenticating" if a car is accepted for judging? Just askin'.

No mention, that I heard, was made of any change in registration procedures -- so I am kind of thinking it will all come to a head on the judging field. I think the National Team Leaders job just got ratcheted up a notch.

BTW: This may be in Roy’s column in the Fall Restorer. I just haven't had a chance to read it in depth just yet. I sure love the C3s on the cover though.

[Jack H.]

Re: Trim Tag Deviation - Judging Points

There are several 'disconnects' in this thread. First, there's LONG been a dichotomy in the Judging Reference Manual that bears on this. In Section 4, Standard Deductions, Rule 12, Altered Cars we call for a 50% deduction for cars with a change of interior color or fabric.

Then, in the same Section under Rule 14, Added Or Deleted Options, we call for a FULL DEDUCTION for the owner/dealer inspired addition OR deletion of factory original options. Hey...leather upholstery WAS a legitimate factory option!

So, which is it when we have conflicting rules??? Does the first enumerated rule take precedence over the later or vice versa? I think most judges go with the lesser deduction (50%), but there's equally compelling logic for the full deduct...

On the other issue brought up in this thread (VIN/Trim tag), it's LONG been an NCRS rule that cars with improper VIN tags can NOT be judged. But, my recollection of the trim tag issue is that such bars a given car from achieving more than a 2nd Flight award regardless of the car's actual score.

I know Roy's in the process of revising the Judging Reference Manual, but he'd have to comment on these issues for valid interpretation.

[Pat M.]

Re: Trim Tag Deviation - Judging Points

Wow, that should make for an interesting scene when an owner is told to pack up and go home after he's already on the judging field!

But what I really meant was we've all been in the lengthy discussions in which it's noted that NCRS's judging does not determine originality, and thus does not "authenticate" a car. But if now a car cannot even be judged unless it's VIN and trim tag are determined to be authentic, you know owners with an award will now hold out those items to have been "authenticated" by NCRS. Just a thought.

[Michael W.]

Re: Trim Tag Deviation - Judging Points

Restorer. I just haven't had a chance to read it in depth just yet. I sure love the C3s on the cover though.

Terry,

If you mean the Summer edition (the one just received with the LS6 and L88 cars on the cover) it makes no mention of any change in the rules and in fact Roy's column reiterates at great length the long standing methods and processes that judges are to follow on the judging field.

If this change is not in the JRM, not mentioned in the Restorer and only 'verbal' how can judge or owners be expected to follow the rules ?

[Terry M.]

Re: Trim Tag Deviation - Judging Points

There are several 'disconnects' in this thread. First, there's LONG been a dichotomy in the Judging Reference Manual that bears on this. In Section 4, Standard Deductions, Rule 12, Altered Cars we call for a 50% deduction for cars with a change of interior color or fabric.

Then, in the same Section under Rule 14, Added Or Deleted Options, we call for a FULL DEDUCTION for the owner/dealer inspired addition OR deletion of factory original options. Hey...leather upholstery WAS a legitimate factory option!

So, which is it when we have conflicting rules??? Does the first enumerated rule take precedence over the later or vice versa? I think most judges go with the lesser deduction (50%), but there's equally compelling logic for the full deduct...

On the other issue brought up in this thread (VIN/Trim tag), it's LONG been an NCRS rule that cars with improper VIN tags can NOT be judged. But, my recollection of the trim tag issue is that such bars a given car from achieving more than a 2nd Flight award regardless of the car's actual score.

I know Roy's in the process of revising the Judging Reference Manual, but he'd have to comment on these issues for valid interpretation.

Bolded portion: Jack -- sometimes yes and sometimes no. Whether leather of a given color was a valid option depends on the year of the Corvette in question and the color involved. So the rule was written to apply to ALL years, in most of which there was no disconnect. For example: I would love to have Bright Blue leather in my 1970, but it was not an available option in 1970 -- however, in 1969 well that's a horse of a different color.

[David S.]

Re: Trim Tag Deviation - Judging Points

It is no secret. And it is not coming, it is here. Roy announced it at Gettysburg, Des Moines and Concord. I think that makes it kind of official.

If the VIN or Trim Tag is determined to not be authentic -- the car will be disqualified from judging in NCRS.

Please note that is NOT the situation the OP described -- at least as I understand his post.

Thank you everyone for the information. The tags on the car are 100% original. As I mentioned the only issue with it is the leather seats vs standard seats.

Thanks,
Dave