Corvette Delivery Data - The real Story?

[Michael J.]

Re: Corvette Delivery Data - The real Story?

I am very interested to see what gets released. Any additional info is great. Though I have the window stcker and tank sticker for my '67, I would love to see more info. My '66 only has a POP, and I'm not sure that is real either, maybe this data will shead some more light on this.

[Duke W.]

Re: Corvette Delivery Data - The real Story?

Don't forget S.A.E. horsepower (formula corelates to displacement), which would weed-out all the wannabe BB's.

It's best referred to as "taxable horsepower" and is based on total piston area, not to be confused with SAE gross or net horsepower, which is actual measured power output to different configuration and air density standards.

Taxable HP = (bore squared in inches)(no. of cyls.)/2.5

This formula was developed in the UK early in the twentieth century and was used as a basis for registration taxes and is the reason most British engines ended up with long strokes. It's based the knowledge that, all other things equal except stroke, peak horsepower is a function of piston area and the 2.5 divisor yielded the typical measured horsepower for engines of that era, which had much lower specfic output than modern engines.

It was also used by some states in the US as a tax basis up through the mid-twentieth century, but I don't think it's used to compute taxes anywhere in the world today, but I'm not sure.

The taxable horsepower of the 4" bore 327 and 350 is 51.2 and the 4.25" bore 427 and 454 is 58.7.

I expect taxable horsepower was stated on MSO documents since they are what the states get when they issue a license and title for a newly purchased car.

Duke

[Wayne M.]

Re: Corvette Delivery Data - The real Story?

......The taxable horsepower of the 4" bore 327 and 350 is 51.2 and the 4.25" bore 427 and 454 is 58.7. .....

Duke -- you forgot the most important displacement taxable H.P. The 396 is 53.6 .

Pic is of the MSO of a 396 VIN # 22301, with shipping weight 3229 lb. Notice that this document still refers to it as SAE hp, even though you are correct in your explanation.

Edit: forgot I had a copy of this on my Photobucket acct., which is larger and easier to read.

[Kenneth H.]

Re: Corvette Delivery Data - The real Story?

This is great news. I have what I was told was, and what I believe to be, the original bill of sale (Dealer Car Invoice) for my '70 LT1. If the Corvette Shipping Data document shows delivery to the dealer on the bill of sale, it could further legitimize the document. If we could, I'd preorder the document today.

As for the Corvette Documentation Validation which will follow, the anouncement states "The second service is the CORVETTE DOCUMENT VALIDATION. NCRS will compare any of your GM documents to the GM records contained in the Shipping Report and if verification can be achieved, will establish the authenticity of your factory documents. Unfortunately, the shipping report does not contain the vehicle options."

First I assume that since my bill of sale isn't a factory document, I'm out of luck on this one. Or am I? Apparently there's more info out there. The statement "Unfortunately, the shipping report does not contain the vehicle options", might indicate that some information, such as color, which I don't believe is an option, might be available.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Thanks,

[Duke W.]

Re: Corvette Delivery Data - The real Story?

Duke -- you forgot the most important displacement taxable H.P. The 396 is 53.6 .

Pic is of the MSO of a 396 VIN # 22301, with shipping weight 3229 lb. Notice that this document still refers to it as SAE hp, even though you are correct in your explanation.

Thank you! I was too lazy to run the calculation, so I just read the taxable horsepower values from my '67 AMA specs.

Thanks for posting the 396 MSO.

Now, let's see, the taxable horsepower of the 283...click, click, click is 48.05.

Duke

[James G.]

Re: Corvette Delivery Data - The real Story?

This is all VERY interesting stuff. I'll be following this closely, as will others I'm sure. Build sheets would be great to have, if that's what we're talking about here. If we're talking about dealer delivery information, that would be nice to have also. In that case, I'm not sure that GM saved that stuff. Maybe they did. The real repository / "mother load" for that information lies with the National Insurance Crime Bureau (NICB). That organization DOES have a significant body of old documents and microfiche that will provide dealer delivery information, the delivery date, and I believe the dealer code. But that's it. I don't think there's any information regarding a particular vehicle's options, weight, etc. It's just where the car was shipped to from the factory, and the date it arrived at it's destination. That's still good stuff to know if you're trying to figure out where to start looking for previous owners.

Although I'm not entirely sure about this point, I believe NICB's information starts in the early 1960s. Some of those earlier years also have breaks in the information, so basically, there are strings of consecutive VINs that are missing. For example, I am 110% sure that the delivery information for the last 132 Corvettes manufactured in 1966 is missing from NICB records. I also know that other consecutive strings of VINs are missing from earlier years. From the little that I know, it seems that NICB records are mostly complete from about 1967 forward.

Don't get too excited, and don't even waste your time trying to get specific information about your car from the NICB. They won't give it to you. As a matter of fact, it's very difficult to get even for law enforcement personnel. For some unknown reason, they guard that information like it's got something to do with national security.

Again, this is all very interesting stuff. I'm sure many of us will be watching closely.

Jim C.

Well written. I agree completely. Prior to 911, things were much easier. Today, there are big fines imposed even on law enforcement for just "looking" without a case number or real legal reason to inspect and retrieve information. My best guess is NCRS is close to the NICB Records........"BUT DON'T QUOTE ME....IT IS MY BEST GUESS !!"

[Edward J.]

Re: Corvette Delivery Data - The real Story?

This info should help fill in the dealer codes and zones numbers in the NCRS web site that were missing, for those who already have a corvette build sheet or order copy. I guess the only other info would be the del. date, worth 40 bucks?

Or do you think that this info will not be added to the web site?

[Clem Z.]

Re: Corvette Delivery Data - The real Story?

This is all VERY interesting stuff. I'll be following this closely, as will others I'm sure. Build sheets would be great to have, if that's what we're talking about here. If we're talking about dealer delivery information, that would be nice to have also. In that case, I'm not sure that GM saved that stuff. Maybe they did. The real repository / "mother load" for that information lies with the National Insurance Crime Bureau (NICB). That organization DOES have a significant body of old documents and microfiche that will provide dealer delivery information, the delivery date, and I believe the dealer code. But that's it. I don't think there's any information regarding a particular vehicle's options, weight, etc. It's just where the car was shipped to from the factory, and the date it arrived at it's destination. That's still good stuff to know if you're trying to figure out where to start looking for previous owners.

Although I'm not entirely sure about this point, I believe NICB's information starts in the early 1960s. Some of those earlier years also have breaks in the information, so basically, there are strings of consecutive VINs that are missing. For example, I am 110% sure that the delivery information for the last 132 Corvettes manufactured in 1966 is missing from NICB records. I also know that other consecutive strings of VINs are missing from earlier years. From the little that I know, it seems that NICB records are mostly complete from about 1967 forward.

Don't get too excited, and don't even waste your time trying to get specific information about your car from the NICB. They won't give it to you. As a matter of fact, it's very difficult to get even for law enforcement personnel. For some unknown reason, they guard that information like it's got something to do with national security.

Again, this is all very interesting stuff. I'm sure many of us will be watching closely.

Jim C.

finding the true history of your corvette may be of top priority to the owner but my guess it is way down on the priority list of the people who handle the NICB files.

[Jim C.]

Re: Corvette Delivery Data - The real Story?

Thanks for the compliment Jim. It really is unfortunate that the NICB won't make those records public. I don't see the harm in letting the current owners of vehicles from the 1960s and 70s know where those vehicles were initially delivered. I certainly don't know the statistics, but I'd have to guess that most of those vehicles, including the Corvettes, are long gone. But remember, they have dealer delivery records for ALL U.S. manufactured vehicles beginning in the early 1960s. If they released the information, initially they'd be swamped with requests, but that would eventually subside. Once an owner had the information, it would just get passed along with the car. There's probably many owners of old cars who don't even care about that stuff. Nonetheless, that NICB info is practically impossible to get, and I don't see that trend changing any time soon. I suspect that the NCRS info will be similar to the NICB records. If so, hopefully it will have come from GM and will be more complete than the early NICB records.

Jim C.

[Ronald L.]

Re: Corvette Delivery Data - The real Story?

Insurance companies and the NICB are real shallow to that extent. This document, if filtering for faked trim, option, especially motor wheels and exhaust are really key when it comes to preventing fraud.

[Edward J.]

Re: Corvette Delivery Data - The real Story?

Insurance companies and the NICB are real shallow to that extent. This document, if filtering for faked trim, option, especially motor wheels and exhaust are really key when it comes to preventing fraud.

Ron, The info being released is only the dealer name, dealer code, del. date to the dealer.No opitions are listed , but things may change down the road?

[Ronald L.]

Re: Corvette Delivery Data - The real Story?

Ed, You know that this is the information? Please confirm.

I'm all on board, is part of the final search I've been in.

[Edward J.]

Re: Corvette Delivery Data - The real Story?

Ed, You know that this is the information? Please confirm.

I'm all on board, is part of the final search I've been in.

Ron, I was at Carlisle and was talking with Mark Lincoln and Dick Capello.this is all that is currently avail.but there maybe a chance down the road other info will be released. Also the validation serv.

[Joseph K.]

Re: Corvette Delivery Data - The real Story?

Guys, I really don't care where it came from. If it is good information it will help me get started on my quest to find more info on my car. Like other guys out there I have nothing on the first 15 years on my car, anything is something. Thank you to the members that have made this possible.

Joe

[Kenneth B.]

Re: Corvette Delivery Data - The real Story?

Ron, The info being released is only the dealer name, dealer code, del. date to the dealer.No opitions are listed , but things may change down the road?

ED
I believe you are right. I have had two Corvettes checked from the NATB & that is all the info that you get. I believe that these were to kept so that if a auto carrier was stolen thy would have a record of where it was going to by the SN since it would have never been titled & still on MSO. To get info from them you have to find a cop that is in auto theft & this was back in the day. Bet it is harder now.
KEN