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New Reproduction Frames

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  • Frederick W.
    Expired
    • December 4, 2009
    • 159

    #31
    Re: New Reproduction Frames

    Originally posted by Dick Whittington (8804)
    Fredrick, I used and sold Neil's frames for over 15 years and NEVER had a complaint or problem. I am like John, as many as have been sold, surely one of us would have heard of a problem.
    One would certainly think so.
    But no one has more experience than the two men I have spoken with.
    Caveat emptor I guess.
    I intend to go slow and investigate further. Hopefully, in the end I will confidently buy one of the new frames.

    Fred

    Comment

    • Michael G.
      Extremely Frequent Poster
      • January 1, 1997
      • 1251

      #32
      Re: New Reproduction Frames

      Originally posted by Frederick Willison (51097)
      John,
      Understand that I am not giving a negative review, because I have not personally ever even laid eyes on one of these frames.
      But I heard these criticisms by a very experienced nationally known corvette frame guy, and when I told him that everyone else says the frames are great, he gave me two other nationally known frame shops to call to verify his statments. I called one of these shops (everyone here would know the shop if I gave the name) and the information was absolutely verified with no mincing of words. I may call the other shop as well.
      Again, perhaps this is all sour grapes among competitors, but these shops have been around for decades and the people are big names in the business.
      I really hope it is wrong, because I want one of these frames for my car.
      Fred
      Fred,

      In making a statement of fact as to what you were told or heard would only be fair to state the names of these guys....."no one has more experience than the two men I have spoken with". I'm taking no one's side but to make a statement as such and not provide us with collaborating information for myself is just an open statement. We're big boys here.....we can take it.

      Comment

      • Charles H.
        Infrequent User
        • June 30, 1997
        • 11

        #33
        Re: New Reproduction Frames

        I too have used one of Vette Products frames with excellent results. My car is a 62 from Massachusetts-the rust belt-and it was not useable. Neil was great to do business with, and the frame was perfect. Every weld was exactly the same length and in the same place as the original. All holes were correct, nothing needed modification. I bought the correct size and style stamp set and stamped the frame VIN very carefully-it came out perfect. There were no fit issues. Shimming took a little time to get it right, but that's normal.Ten months after completion in 2006, this car had a Duntov. Now I'm working on a 71, and I'll probably end up replacing that frame also.Use Vette products with confidence, Tim.

        Comment

        • Frederick W.
          Expired
          • December 4, 2009
          • 159

          #34
          Re: New Reproduction Frames

          Originally posted by Michael Gill (28614)
          Fred,

          In making a statement of fact as to what you were told or heard would only be fair to state the names of these guys....."no one has more experience than the two men I have spoken with". I'm taking no one's side but to make a statement as such and not provide us with collaborating information for myself is just an open statement. We're big boys here.....we can take it.
          I don't think it would be appropriate for me to name specific people without their permission or desire to make public their opinions. Businesses, reputations, and livelihoods are on the line.
          I would simply urge everyone to investigate carefully on their own before committing to purchasing a frame.
          I will say that virtually all of the feedback I have received via private messages as well as postings on this board suggest that the frames do not have the issues I was told they have. I am still contemplating purchasing one of the frames, but will perform some additional due diligence first.

          Fred

          Comment

          • Timothy B.
            Extremely Frequent Poster
            • April 30, 1983
            • 5177

            #35
            Re: New Reproduction Frames

            I spoke with Bill Grace from Grace-way machine and he seems very knowledgeable about repairing these frames. Very nice person to talk with and I thank him for taking time for me.. He said to look at the angles (curves) of the stampings as he is concerned about the stamping machines used not being big enough, if I understood him correctly.

            Bill stated he purchased a rear kick up from vette products and told me the fit was fine but the hole for the trailing arm bolt was off. BUT, in defense of vette products, Neil told me over the phone that the repair kick up they sell now does not come with the hole drilled because they have observed this problem when piecing frame sections so the installer has to locate and drill this important hole after the repair is made.

            Neil also advised me that if one side of a frame is bad usually the other side is thin and to consider replacing the complete rear portion of the frame. The sectioning he advised is to be made in the main frame area using the sleeve. Makes sense to me..

            All comments are appreciated..


            Charles, did I understand you correctly in that you can buy the correct style stamp set and restamp your vin to the new frame?

            Comment

            • Frederick W.
              Expired
              • December 4, 2009
              • 159

              #36
              Re: New Reproduction Frames

              Just got back from a local car show today. I spoke with a gentleman who has a small restoration business, and owns a 63 vert. He told me he has personally used two of the Vette products midyear frames. He said he did have to cut and slightly relocate/reweld a couple of body mounts, but didn't seem to think it was a big deal. Otherwise the fit was fine, and he didn't seem to think there was any problem with the rear kick ups or mounting the rear bumpers.
              Basically goes along with what everyone else is saying.

              Fred

              Comment

              • Dennis O.
                Expired
                • December 1, 1988
                • 438

                #37
                Re: New Reproduction Frames

                So what you guys are saying is that a car with a repop frame that is finished well will outscore my driver with the original frame? I'm sure it will. We have created a monster here.

                Comment

                • Timothy B.
                  Extremely Frequent Poster
                  • April 30, 1983
                  • 5177

                  #38
                  Re: New Reproduction Frames

                  Frederick,

                  I am not saying there is any problem with the kick up sections, just that I was told about a slight issue with this hole alignment when sectioning a frame kick up.

                  As far as body mounts go I have a hard time believing there is a problem here. Those issues would be a red flag with these frames. I wonder how bad those cars were wrecked.

                  Comment

                  • Rich P.
                    Expired
                    • January 12, 2009
                    • 1361

                    #39
                    Re: New Reproduction Frames

                    I have a question, is there only one company making full repro frames? The reason I say this is because 2 years ago I was walking through the isles at Carlisle and saw a full repro frame, the fit fo the box sections were not correct the flats on the box section were sucked in due to incorrect bends at the corners and the welds were not even close to factory appeance. I AM NOT IMPLYING THAT THIS WAS A VETTE PRODUCTS FRAME. Next there has been almost 40 posts on this topic with not 1 up close detailed picture of any weld, bend or fit. A picture is worth a 1000 words.

                    Rich

                    Comment

                    • Timothy B.
                      Extremely Frequent Poster
                      • April 30, 1983
                      • 5177

                      #40
                      Re: New Reproduction Frames

                      Rich,

                      I don't have any comparsion pics of stampings and welds to post but I bet others have some.

                      I would like to compare an original to the vette products frame.. The ones I saw at Carlisle looked really good to me but at that time I was not looking for anything specific..

                      Comment

                      • Frederick W.
                        Expired
                        • December 4, 2009
                        • 159

                        #41
                        Re: New Reproduction Frames

                        Originally posted by Dennis Odoms (13959)
                        So what you guys are saying is that a car with a repop frame that is finished well will outscore my driver with the original frame? I'm sure it will. We have created a monster here.
                        Dennis,

                        I don't think there has been any comment regarding judging. Did I miss it?

                        Fred

                        Comment

                        • Frederick W.
                          Expired
                          • December 4, 2009
                          • 159

                          #42
                          Re: New Reproduction Frames

                          Originally posted by Timothy Barbieri (6542)
                          Frederick,

                          I am not saying there is any problem with the kick up sections, just that I was told about a slight issue with this hole alignment when sectioning a frame kick up.

                          As far as body mounts go I have a hard time believing there is a problem here. Those issues would be a red flag with these frames. I wonder how bad those cars were wrecked.
                          I know what you mean. I mean, obviously, if there have been significant issues with accurate localization of body mounts or fit that would make remounting a body difficult, people would know about it.
                          I just don't get it.
                          If anyone has had problems (other than the one post I saw about a 69 frame have an issue with transmission crossmember height, etc.) I'm sure we'd have heard about it by now.

                          Fred

                          Comment

                          • Frederick W.
                            Expired
                            • December 4, 2009
                            • 159

                            #43
                            Re: New Reproduction Frames

                            One of the issues I was told about was that crossmember 1 on Neal's frames had the double depression from the newer frames that would be incorrect on my 63 (which had a single depression since no big blocks yet existed, based on my limited understanding).
                            I was sent a pic by a member of his 63 that shows this is not accurate:



                            Incidentally, one of the references I was told would verify the claims of problems was Paul Newman Car Creations in Templeton, CA. I was not very familiar with this shop (though I've heard of them) so I did not call to check it out. Also, this shop makes frames (with C4 suspensions for restomod), so they would also be a competitor of sorts.
                            If anyone knows this shop, perhaps they can inquire.
                            I don't mean to devalue the statements made here by the senior people like John Hinckley, Dick Whittington, Bill Clupper and others who fully vouch for Neal's frames. Those statments are the most valuable pieces of evidence.

                            To date I have not had any significant claims of problems sent to me from anyone on this board, and I've had many positive experiences recounted.

                            Fred

                            Comment

                            • John H.
                              Beyond Control Poster
                              • December 1, 1997
                              • 16513

                              #44
                              Re: New Reproduction Frames

                              Originally posted by Timothy Barbieri (6542)
                              I don't have any comparsion pics of stampings and welds to post but I bet others have some.
                              Tim -

                              Here's a typical weld (midyear #3 crossmember), taken at random in Neal's shop.
                              Attached Files

                              Comment

                              • Rich P.
                                Expired
                                • January 12, 2009
                                • 1361

                                #45
                                Re: New Reproduction Frames

                                John,

                                Great picture!!!
                                It is evident from the picture that the new frames are mig welded. The originals were arc welded . (I have seen evidence on 69 camaro sub frames of early style wire feed welding). Each style welding leaves a different look. Mig welding puts more material in and makes for a fatter weld while arc weldind tends to leave under cut on the sides, has a diffrent start and stop pattern. You also can see the strike spots for arc welding and it leaves different spatter than mig.
                                Now with that being said I am in no way critisisng the vette frame product just the oppisite it looks like a quality product and I'm looking for a 69 frame for a customer and will look into them!!
                                I was just answereing Tims question on differences between the new and original frames.

                                Rich

                                Comment

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