Judging question

[Mike R.]

In the Judging Score Sheets it lists 16 availible points for shock absorbers, 8 for originality and 8 for condition. I understand that new original shocks would recieve all 16 point. I am not sure how judging is applied to non original replacement parts. How would the following score:

No shocks present on car
New Bilstein shocks in their original yellow
New Bilstein shocks painted the correct gray color
Delco replacement shocks in their original black
Delco replacement shocks painted the correct black

Thanks

Mike

[Rick A.]

Re: Judging question

well, not sure what "class of car" you are talking about, but let's assume prior to 1984 - no expert, but will respond the Bilstein shocks will be TOTAL deduct or 16 points lost, no matter what color they are - Bilstein was not available as standard equipment - the last two options you mention will receive some originality deduction as we know they are not correct in configuration and date for sure - would probably receive no condition hit

[Mark D.]

Re: Judging question

Mike,

If you go with a Delco replacement shock on the front, painted the correct color and wearing a visible and correct broadcast decal...you will, most likely, receive full credit.

I believe you said your car is F41 equipped, so, unless you display correctly configured rear shocks, the difference will be very easy for a judge to spot. If you display correctly configured service date rears, well, you may or may not sneek that one by. It will probably depend on how fat the judge is and whether it's the 1st car or the 8th.

Regards,

Mark

[Michael W.]

Re: Judging question

well, not sure what "class of car" you are talking about, but let's assume prior to 1984 - no expert, but will respond the Bilstein shocks will be TOTAL deduct or 16 points lost, no matter what color they are - Bilstein was not available as standard equipment - the last two options you mention will receive some originality deduction as we know they are not correct in configuration and date for sure - would probably receive no condition hit

I don't think it's that cut and dried Ricky. What if the Bilsteins happened to look somewhat like the originals in configuration- maybe even more so than the present day Delcos. Brand name is just one axis of judging.

To me, the only time it's OK to say 'never' or 'always' is when the component is missing completely.

[Rick A.]

Re: Judging question

Mikey,

would be REAL hard-pressed to give a Bilstein any credit.....guess you could say it looks like a shock, and then give all the condition points, but that is really stretching it

[Patrick H.]

Re: Judging question

Mikey,

would be REAL hard-pressed to give a Bilstein any credit.....guess you could say it looks like a shock, and then give all the condition points, but that is really stretching it

Using FDICC, I'd bet that a Bilstein would still score OK on finish if painted the correct color as well as OK on installation if the correct hardware is used. You might even then give it completeness.

Configuration and Dating are the only two axes it would "have to" lose points.

Patrick

[Edward J.]

Re: Judging question

Using FDICC, I'd bet that a Bilstein would still score OK on finish if painted the correct color as well as OK on installation if the correct hardware is used. You might even then give it completeness.

Configuration and Dating are the only two axes it would "have to" lose points.

Patrick

PAT,- CDCIF- I believe that all you need is 10% in originality to get the condition points? Is this correct?

[Michael W.]

Re: Judging question

That's correct.

[Terry M.]

Re: Judging question

Using FDICC, I'd bet that a Bilstein would still score OK on finish if painted the correct color as well as OK on installation if the correct hardware is used. You might even then give it completeness.

Configuration and Dating are the only two axes it would "have to" lose points.

Patrick

Patrick -- Take off your white hat. Over here is is CDCIF as Ed says.

[Edward J.]

Re: Judging question

Terry - one word -dyslexia.

[Patrick H.]

Re: Judging question

Patrick -- Take off your white hat. Over here is is CDCIF as Ed says.

Like the order makes a difference...?

I don't have one of those old laminated John Woods cards, so I get to put them in any order I want.

[Paul O.]

Re: Judging question

Mike to answer your questions I will give it a shot.

1. Missing shocks full deduct 8 and 8.
2. Bilstein in yellow full deduct 8 and 8
3. If the configuration is incorrect and no bilstein markings 20% config, 20% date, good on finish, correct fasteners and washers and install is complete then 3 point deduct and full condition pioints if they warrant that.
4. If they are correct in every way then 20% if date can be seen if not full credit. With black I assume we are talking about late C3 cars.
5. Same as #4 above.

There maybe some wiggle room if the judges views the bushing, fasteners and washers are correct then they may give you 10% to obtain your condition points. On the full deduct areas.



Paul 18046

[Jack H.]

Re: Judging question

And, now that CDCIF is a formal judging rule rather than a policy, you take that full deduction for an 'incorrect' part and you go stand before the Team Leader and argue your case.

My bet is he'll challenge you: "Well were there shocks installed on the car or were they TOTALLY missing?"

Next, the TL should probably tell you that today's GM service replacement shocks aren't made by Delco anymore (even though they come in a Delco box from the Chevy parts counter) and ask you if you're taking full deductions for those parts too?

Last, he'll probably point you to CDCIF and ask you to justify that the Bilstein shocks violate each/every one of the five Originality consideration axis and I suspect you'll squirm...

Then, one step further. The line item for 'shocks' has both major (the shocks themselves) and minor items (attaching fasteners). So, you have to metally allocate how many of the 8 originality points go with the shocks and how many points go with the minor items.

Bottom line, we can get into complex math FAST trying to drum up 'correct' answers to this poster's hypothetical question. I'd simply tell him to paint whatever shock he puts on the car the factory 'correct' original color and let the chips fall where they will!

[Page C.]

Re: Judging question

I like Pauls assessment. If you give credit for a "know" Bilsten shock, what's the difference in giving credit for a 15 inch Ford hub cap just because it's installed on a Corvette rim. Sure it's installed, the finish is correct, probably made in the same time frame as far as dates are concerned but it was never available on a early or midyear Corvette or as a service replacement. I vote total deduct for Bilstens.
Regards,
Page Campbell

[Michael W.]

Re: Judging question

I think that taking a total deduct because you 'know' they're Bilsteins is double if not triple dipping. By the same logic any part that is thought to be made by a source other than the correct OEM should also be a total deduct.

Repro door panels can be picked out quite easily and good judges can tell an Al Knoch from a Corvette America panel. Should this simple to accomplish determination result in a total deduct?

Here are typical Bilstein shocks:



Here are typical Delcos



Putting colour aside (neither is correct), are any identical in config/shape to the originals?