I have a recently acquired 1962 that I believe is a good BowTie candidate. I know that it is not 100% original and want advice on how to deal with non-original parts. For instance, my mufflers are aftermarket and are not accurate reproductions. Would it be better to try to acquire real C1 off road mufflers or are reproductions okay as neither will be original to my car? Also the paint has been touched up in spots (with, apparently, a bottle of nail polish), is it better to redo the touched up spots in a professional manner or just leave them looking like crap?
-
-
Re: C1 BowTie candidate questions
Terry -
The short answer is that anything you do to the car (like parts replacement) will result in a line item failure, whether the part is configured as-original or not. Star/Bowtie judging is all about factory originality, period; if the part isn't the one installed 49 years ago at St. Louis, it isn't original. -
Re: C1 BowTie candidate questions
So my paint will fail because some guy in the distant past touched up the paint? If that is so I may as well have it completely repainted that way at least it will look nicer.Comment
-
Re: C1 BowTie candidate questions
That's not quite what John was saying- obviously cars will have scratches etc over a long period of time, as well as different parts being replaced due to wear and tear.
The point is that a car cannot be made original again- it is what it is. Bring your car out to a meet and let people have a look before you restore anything.Comment
-
Re: C1 BowTie candidate questions
That is not what John said. I am not sure how you went from parts to paint -- but your paint must be determined to be 75% original. As far as parts go:
Exterior = 85% original parts
Interior = 85% original parts
Mechanical = 80% original parts
Chassis = 80% original parts
There are 6+ pages (mostly single spaced) devoted to the NCRS Starr and Chevrolet Bowtie Awards for Preservation Excellence in the NCRS Judging Reference Manual (Section 9). I doubt any of us can make a significant dent in those comments on this board. I know I can't. I would urge you to get the Judging Reference Manual, 8th Edition, from Cincinnati.TerryComment
-
Re: C1 BowTie candidate questions
Where can I find out what Bowtie, Survivor, etc entails? I have never had a car judged but my recent purchase of a pretty much original car has peaked my interest to try getting it judged.Comment
-
Re: C1 BowTie candidate questions
John -
Get the new 8th Edition of the Corvette Judging Reference Manual, and you'll find what you need on pages 45-51. Nobody considering any category of judging should be without this publication. Just click the "NCRS Store" item at the top of the page and order it.Comment
-
Re: C1 BowTie candidate questions
...take it to a Regional Meet where it may get signed off by the Team Leader with the input from his judges(Regional/National Level)who by past experience(and many of whom are Bowtie Judges)would give great insight as to whether it maybe Bowtie material.
...I put a 37,000mi 1974 coupe and a 42,000mi 1968 coupe through the process years ago and it was a great experience. Both ended up 5 Star Bowtie cars. Also got Bloomington Gold Survivor on each one too.Comment
-
Re: C1 BowTie candidate questions
"So my paint will fail because some guy in the distant past touched up the paint? If that is so I may as well have it completely repainted that way at least it will look nicer."
Methinks you have NOT obtained the NCRS Judging Reference Manual and read the rules of Star/Bowtie judging since your statement is out in left field here on paint. What is the pass/fail criteria for factory original paint?Comment
-
Re: C1 BowTie candidate questions
Terry, this is a question Team Leaders get all the time. The very best thing I can tell you is to resist the strong temptaion to "improve" your car. Nothing you can do will make the car more original. Buy the Judging Reference Manual and learn about the Bowtie process, leave the car as you got it, and sign it up for Bowtie sign-off at a regional meet. If the paint touch up left a large portion of the original paint unmolested, that should not hurt you (the dgree of touch up is the issue).
DaveComment
-
Re: C1 BowTie candidate questions
I've read through the 6th Edition of Judging Reference manual (8th edition on order) again and I still am unsure about my paint situation. It seems clear that as far as parts go its an absolute pass/fail, it's original or not. With paint it calls for 75% original and I believe that I have more than 75% original paint. However, there were statements that left me queasy thinking that maybe the touch up done in the past may disqualify the paint entirely. But maybe not and thus my thoughts of touching up the touched up parts. I guess its just best to do nothing right now and wait until I get an opinion from a regional or national judge. Thanks for the advice.Comment
-
Re: C1 BowTie candidate questions
The paint issue hinges on what you and the National Team Leader think is "touch up." That could be several different things. As others have said -- "Anything you do tot he car is a negative at this time."
"I guess its just best to do nothing right now and wait until I get an opinion from a regional or national judge." This is absolutely the best idea. Stick with that thought.TerryComment
-
Re: C1 BowTie candidate questions
Terry-
You're missing the point. Bowtie (not Flight Judging) is about original, virgin, untouched 'factory'. Not how well something was repaired or restored.
Restoring a car to meet Bowtie requirements is a contradiction in terms.Comment
-
Re: C1 BowTie candidate questions
I get that BowTie is about original. My car is not 100% original and the paint "touch ups" are quite ugly. What I've been trying to determine is: 1.) is my paint disqualified because it was touched up in the past and 2.) if 1 is not true then is there any harm to redoing the touchups so that they are not so ugly.
If the touch ups don't disqualify my car then I see benefit in redoing them because I would enjoy a nicer looking car. I understand that it would not increase my chance of obtaining a BowTie star.
I'm going to do nothing until I get a definitive answer from a high level NCRS judge. If a judge says it's okay to redo the touch ups I'll do so if for no other reason than not having to see people look at the touch ups and imagine them thinking "you paid good money for this car?".Comment
-
Re: C1 BowTie candidate questions
Terry,
Your best bet for a definitive answer to the touch-up question is the National Team Leader -- and I would bet you a beer he will want to see the car just as it is before giving you an opinion.
You may be worried needlessly about the appearance of your car. At the National in Charlotte we had a Corvette in the Bowtie judging with a bullet hole in the windshield and one with a good percentage of its paint missing and a "see through" exhaust system. Those all may have been the same car, I had a hard time keeping track.
There was recently a thread on here about a "barn find" 1967 435 that was shown at a recent non-NCRS show in Illinois. It was shown with all the dirt on it -- tires partly flat -- just as they pulled it from the barn. You should have seen the people crawling all over that car at the show -- look up the thread on here. No one had anything negative (well not much) to say about it. Those folks who have worked for years to spread the word about original cars are seeing their message getting through -- and not just to Corvettes either. You should have seen the original Chevelles and Camaros -- and some non-GM brands too -- at that show.
I know it is your car and you can do what you want with it, but the owner is frequently the harshest judge of his own car. Oh and BTW: There are NO 100% original Corvettes. My line is: "There are no Corvette virgins." And I have been looking unsuccessfully for one for 30 years. I have seen some close (one with 4 miles and another with 300 miles), but someone always fools with something.TerryComment
Comment