Inferior Chinese Products

[Stephen B.]

Stephen Barrett (21558)

[Anthony P.]

Re: Inferior Chinese Products

Stephen,

I know exactly what you mean. It would be nice to have an on-line spreadsheet or survey form for us to rank and rate vendors. I came across something like this on another forum a while back, but all of the info was old/dated.

Regards,
Tony

[Michael W.]

Re: Inferior Chinese Products

So let the conversation begin.
Stephen Barrett (21558)

Again? We've heard it all before.

[John H.]

Re: Inferior Chinese Products

Does it really cost that much more to reproduce an accurate part. The tooling and production would be the same for both , would it not?

[Paul O.]

Re: Inferior Chinese Products

John I can tell you it does Steve our Chapter and myself were at our monthly meeting last night at Trim Parts in Ohio. After the meeting several employees gave us a tour of the facility. We have done this before but on this occasion we were shown a station for a mid year nose crossed flag emblem was to be painted. Now we a talking about just the paint for the emblem. On the table were 4 metal dies one for each color to be applied. This was to replicate the original procedures of original emblems. The dies just for the paint cost approx. $4000 now add labor,the die to make the casting, materials, etc. This was just for one particular emblem and Trim Parts makes hundreds of different emblems so the cost to reproduce the parts correctly has a high cost and not all suppliers are willing to do this.

It all comes down to how much a person is willing to spend for a restoration some go for the least costly while others go all out. Some vendors will reproduce the item correctly but is the consumer willing to pay for it that is the question.

Paul 18046

[Stuart F.]

Re: Inferior Chinese Products

Another aspect is that all major vendors, in order to compete effectively, must carry a complete line of product for a variety of markets, not just Corvettes. Therefore, they each have to carry certain products from one another in order to do this. Because any one of them sells some bad stuff does not mean that everything they handle is bad. I have had to send a lot of stuff back and, in so doing, advise them what it is that is wrong with the part and ask that they correct the situation. Most are receptive to my feedback.

Stu Fox

[John H.]

Re: Inferior Chinese Products

Thank you for the response Paul and Stu. I understand how many of these parts are made.The question still is,if you have to go through all the steps ( research ,design, dies and labor), why are some of these products still so far off ? Not only dimensions (length of studs) but shape and crispness of lettering in some cases. If you can make a fake Rolex, than you can certainly reproduce a better , lets say front emblem for a C1 . We see counterfit parts being passed off as genuine in virtually every industry today, with some being indistinguishable from the real thing cosmetically.

[Dick W.]

Re: Inferior Chinese Products

Off shore companies can, and do, produce quality reproductions, if you will furnish them a good example AND you are willing to step up to the plate and pay for such.

Speaking as a former vendor, if you had an emblem on the table for $50.00 and it was a perfect reproduction and you had the same emblem that was a poor quality reproduction for $40.00, 99 out of 100 buyers would pick the $40.00 emblem. There are more people looking to flip a car and make a few buck, getting out as cheap as they can, than there are doing restorations, or just touching up their cars. Sad, but a fact of life.

Trim Parts is a good example of a company trying to do it right, so is Vette Products who manufacture parts that no one else in the world would even attempt to do.

[Stuart F.]

Re: Inferior Chinese Products

Since we're using emblems as an example; I bought all new nose, side fender and rear script for my 63 back in the mid 70's just to bring it back to new (so to speak). I got all new NOS pieces, but had to buy 4 side emblems to get 2 good ones, and one mounting stud was broke off the nose emblem when I got it. My originals, save for a few pits, were better than the NOS replacements 35 or so years ago. I believe all were U.S. made back then too. Those were the days we were led to believe all NOS parts were seconds - maybe so.

Stu Fox

[Jack H.]

Re: Inferior Chinese Products

There are a number of considerations here...

First, if the part has some kind of identifying mark(s) on it, GM will want a license to reproduce it. In general, such run in the $50K range. So, you ask yourself (as a supplier) if it's worth it...

Second, some aspects of a parts' originality can no longer be either manufactured or offered for sale. Aspects, like materials that are now classified as carcinogens, Etc. OR, aspects where production for sale involves qualifying the part against a current standard that the original part was never designed to pass in the first place (like jacks).

Third, getting it 'right' can involve engineering. Even if one has taken a GM license to reproduce a part, the relation between the licensee and GM is one of arms length. It's the licensee who has the responsibility to wade through the various drawings (presuming he negotiated for them) to assess/document the running changes made over time.

Should there be one, two, three or more versions of this part? How does that affect tooling cost? Is there sufficient aftermarket volume to support making a given version of the part? These are NOT trivial questions and the lions share of those in the reproduction parts business do NOT have an in-house engineering staff to guide/assist them.

The question of why don't they make it 'right' comes up frequently and I respond with this canned answer. It's not as simple as you might think!

Plus, consider this: with millions of Corvettes built over the years, the NCRS membership hovers in the 15,000 range. We are NOT movers/shakers when it comes to dictating the aftermarket parts market. The majority look for a part to fit/function and be cost effective...

[Mike R.]

Re: Inferior Chinese Products

I have bought many crummy products that were made right here in the USA. Everything Apple manufactures is made in China. Personally, I am thankful that these things are availible at all. When you think that a particular part might only apply to one powertrain combination on one model year, it is surprising that it is profitable to produce it.

FWIW, I think Dr Rebuild has the most authentic parts, often NOS. I also buy from Paragon and Zip for the 69 and Long Island Corvette for the 65. When it comes to fasteners, I have found Zip is more likely to have a better reproduction in the correct finish. I sometimes look at photos of a particular part from several vendors to see if they at least agree on what it should look like.

Stephen Barrett (21558)

[Bruce B.]

Re: Inferior Chinese Products

Obviously it is not just Corvette parts that can be a problem.

It's dog buscuits, baby food, adult food, childrens toys, pacemakers, medical devices, tires, etc, etc, etc.

The next time you buy fish or shrimp at Krogers check out the country of origin: Vietnam, China and numerous foreign countries that have bad track records for many commodies.

You don't typically get crap when you buy French cheese or scotch from Scotland or even grapes from Chile. You pay the price and get good stuff.

The common denominator is COST and the resultant PROFIT.

[Stephen B.]

Re: Inferior Chinese Products

Great conversation fellow Corvette lovers.Sticking strictly to automotive products I have concerns about more than just emblems.What about the products that could kill you? How about American Wheels now made in China shouldn't they be renamed Chinese Wheels?How about perfection clutches,ever seen a clutch blow up?How about replacement brake drums rotors.wheel cylinders,brake lines.Any of these things could kill you.It's been my experiance that the Chinese care nothing about and are incapable of producing quality machined parts.quality threads,and consistant dimensional quality.I don't trust the strength of their aluminum casting nor the strength of their soft inferior bolts.They take short cuts on everything they ship us and I'm fed up with them and the vendors no matter the product that contract them.
Now on the flip side I can name you several American auto parts manufactures that still make their parts here and make high quality parts.
Trim Parts,Edelbrock(they even put the American flag on every manifold) Moroso,Comp Cam to name a few. They're products are made in America and they make a profit too,imagine that. Who said it couldn't be done. Many amoung you have rolled over and accepted this new world . I'm old school and will continue to fight back til my last breath.Last time I checked the Chinese were still a bunch of Communists that don't share any of our beliefs other than GREED.NUF SAID.
Stephen Barrett (215580) 59,66,71,73

[Michael W.]

Re: Inferior Chinese Products

IBTL

[Jim W.]

Re: Inferior Chinese Products

Off shore companies can, and do, produce quality reproductions, if you will furnish them a good example AND you are willing to step up to the plate and pay for such.

Speaking as a former vendor, if you had an emblem on the table for $50.00 and it was a perfect reproduction and you had the same emblem that was a poor quality reproduction for $40.00, 99 out of 100 buyers would pick the $40.00 emblem. There are more people looking to flip a car and make a few buck, getting out as cheap as they can, than there are doing restorations, or just touching up their cars. Sad, but a fact of life.

Trim Parts is a good example of a company trying to do it right, so is Vette Products who manufacture parts that no one else in the world would even attempt to do.

This is as mentioned, simply the way it is. I tried to get oil pressure sending unit for my 79 coupe, of the five I bought and inspected I tried, 2 were made Mexico one in Taiwan and the others made in China. In the end I used the Mexican unit. It's a simple fact, If no one makes a good "Made in America" product, that's the end of the conversation. It's simply not there and that' that. Sad but true. In America, we do not make anything but huge stacks of paper. We as a country are now an Importer, no longer do we export much of anything made of our own materials any longer.