C1 Top Fender Molding Studs

[James R.]

I am trying to attach my top fender molding to my freshly painted 58. The molding is from CC and the 2 mounting studs under the dash are too short. They need to be 1/2-3/4" longer. Has anyone else had this problem? Any ideas on a fix?
Thanks,
Jim

[Brad H.]

Re: C1 Top Fender Molding Studs

If these bolts dont slide in or out a good braser can add on to them if the right material, machine shop. Brad.

[Richard M.]

Re: C1 Top Fender Molding Studs

James,

I believe what you are running into is a common issue. The trouble is that there is zero space between the aluminum fender reinforcement and the body(under the dash), and very difficult to get the nuts for the rear 2 studs on the molding. The nuts touch the fiberglass just under the stud, not the metal. Is this what your running into?

John H. may know if my hunch is correct and can comment........

I strongly feel that the top fender moldings were installed before the underdash fender reinforcements were installed. IMO there is no way it could have been installed later. These were bolted in until later 1959 when they used steel, then welded together. I think they then had holes drilled in the top reinforcement parts to allow a socket wrench to be used to get at the molding nuts in those 2 locations.

On the '59 I am restoring right now, I have used a 1" hole saw at each top fender reinforcement stud location. Someone already hacked it up from underneath a long time ago. They ended up "gluing" the end of the molding on there before. It was a mess when I got to it. You can see it in the picture below where it was chiseled. They gave up and glued it on.



After hole sawing the 2 stud locations....






Rich

[Bill M.]

Re: C1 Top Fender Molding Studs

My '59 had steel retainers for the 2 rear studs that pushed in from the top of the fender and clipped into the fiberglass. The 2 rear holes in the fender fiberglass are smaller than the front 9 holes. There are barbs on the sides of the retainer that push through the glass and expand to resist pulling back out of the fender. There are lips on the bottom that allow the threaded stud to push through, but the lips grab the stud and won't let it pull out.

[Richard M.]

Re: C1 Top Fender Molding Studs

Bill, I see in my '59 AIM that it calls out for 131014 washer and 134530 nut in 9 places, and 3771930 in 2 places(the 2 near the windshield in question), for each 3740215 top molding. The moldings I have here all have the same length studs, which are threaded.

I could find no reference to the 3771930 nut in my 1929-1959 Parts book. It may be threaded, or it may be like you pictured. However looking at the AIM, it shows the nut underneath, not mounted into the fender.

For reference, my 62 AIM shows all 11 places using the 3752642 nut. My parts book says that is a Type M, 1/8" hole. Maybe that is a palnut type fastener.

Rich

[Joe R.]

Re: C1 Top Fender Molding Studs

I believe you are finding that the later GM replacements and the reproductions have a pot metal stud which requires a pal nut. The originals were a steel threaded stud which requires a washer and nut.

Just another happy reminder that someone on this side of the pond HAD a better idea. Once upon a time anyway!

JR

[Richard M.]

Re: C1 Top Fender Molding Studs

Joe, Yes these are the originals from the '59 I'm restoring. 6-32 steel studs spot welded or possibly brazed to the backplate reinforcemnt.

Rich
p.s. sorry blurry photo, I was shaking.....too much caffeine yesterday. These are steel and you can just make out the 6-32 threads.

p.p.s Maybe Joe L. or John H. can take a look at this and come up with some info. John may know if my hunch about when the top molding was installed, and maybe Joe has some info about the 3771930 nut used at the rearward locations and what it looks like.

[Bill M.]

Re: C1 Top Fender Molding Studs

Rich:

My '59 is a one family car and those fasteners I show above were installed at St. Louis. The front fiberglass is original and the trim strips were never removed until I removed them. St. Louis did not install nuts from underneath on the 2 rear studs in December 1958.

My original '59 studs are all threaded. The replacement trim I bought from service in the 70s has the smooth studs that require a pal nut.

I will have to remember to install the trim strips before I re-install the metal reinforcements. I definitely want a better retention than those goofy push-in retainers. There must have been problems with them pulling loose, and that's why the '60 has 11 nuts installed from underneath like I see in the '60 AIM. Do we know if there are access holes in the reinforcements for the later cars ('60-'62)?

(I would think that getting a pal nut off through an access hole would be a real PITA!)

Bill

[Richard M.]

Re: C1 Top Fender Molding Studs

Bill, This is certainly interesting. It has always been a mystery to me. I have to look at my own '59(vin 5504) and see under the dash. I've had it 25 years and never took off the top fender moldings, but the car was painted in 1970 and therefore isn't original.....I think.

The '59 I'm restoring(#5906), owned by a friend and I'm helping him with it.., was also painted & hacked up over the years, but the moldings are original, except the 2 broken studs at each end where they glued them. I still have the original nose out back and will look at the 4 holes and sizes.

When I also get back out to the garage I'll check my '62 AIM again for the reinforcement pieces and see if there are 2 holes in each. They're steel on the '62's, allegedly some time in '59 they went to steel. Must have been after the 2 '59's listed above because both of those have aluminum reinforcements.

Jim.......Are there holes in your aluminum underdash reinforcements??

Rich

[Anthony P.]

Re: C1 Top Fender Molding Studs

My 62 had access holes. I removed my trim a few months back and it was a pain to get in there and see what I was doing, but I did undo the nuts.

Rich:

My '59 is a one family car and those fasteners I show above were installed at St. Louis. The front fiberglass is original and the trim strips were never removed until I removed them. St. Louis did not install nuts from underneath on the 2 rear studs in December 1958.

My original '59 studs are all threaded. The replacement trim I bought from service in the 70s has the smooth studs that require a pal nut.

I will have to remember to install the trim strips before I re-install the metal reinforcements. I definitely want a better retention than those goofy push-in retainers. There must have been problems with them pulling loose, and that's why the '60 has 11 nuts installed from underneath like I see in the '60 AIM. Do we know if there are access holes in the reinforcements for the later cars ('60-'62)?

(I would think that getting a pal nut off through an access hole would be a real PITA!)

Bill

[Bill M.]

Re: C1 Top Fender Molding Studs

Rich:

Here's a shot of the stud retainer from my '59 installed in one of the 2 rear holes:



The retainer would be pushed down until the wings touch the top of the fender. It's a snug fit, so I didn't push it flush; wasn't sure how tough it would be to remove.

Here's the retainer again:



I studied the '60 AIM and it shows access holes in the reinforcements. I think the 3771930 is installed from underneath; looks like a washer/nut combination. That makes sense because a loose washer just wouldn't work.

Maybe the '58 AIM shows this retainer.

Bill

[Richard M.]

Re: C1 Top Fender Molding Studs

Bill,

I just checked my own '59. The studs are cast, not threaded steel, and there are palnuts on them. I see holes for the studs to pass through. These were obviously changed prior to 25 years ago as I've never had them off. See 1st photo.

However, guess what.......I checked the nose from the other '59. The right had no holes as they were glued, the left side had your identical fasteners in the rearward positions......other photos. The other holes are large oval shaped.It certainly appears it's been like this since built. That must be part# 3771930 nut as shown in the AIM. THe AIM drawing does not look like it, but the AIM drawings are not always as the real thing appears.

Now, where can we get these little critters!

Rich

[Roger W.]

Re: C1 Top Fender Molding Studs

My 59 has 2 of those crazy clips on one side near the windshield. The other side had no clips and the 2 studs near the windshield were missing. I don't know if my moldings were original, but they have steel studs welded on and are not threaded.

[Bill M.]

Re: C1 Top Fender Molding Studs

Bill,

I just checked my own '59. The studs are cast, not threaded steel, and there are palnuts on them. I see holes for the studs to pass through. These were obviously changed prior to 25 years ago as I've never had them off. See 1st photo.

However, guess what.......I checked the nose from the other '59. The right had no holes as they were glued, the left side had your identical fasteners in the rearward positions......other photos. The other holes are large oval shaped.It certainly appears it's been like this since built. That must be part# 3771930 nut as shown in the AIM. THe AIM drawing does not look like it, but the AIM drawings are not always as the real thing appears.

Now, where can we get these little critters!

Rich

There's a clear picture of the 3771930 in the 1960 AIM, and I believe it is a threaded washer-nut that is installed through access holes in the aluminum reinforcements. I don't have a 1959 AIM, but I'll bet the access holes and 3771930 were a running change during 1959. Maybe the push-in retainers are shown in the 1958 AIM. I don't have that either...

I won't re-use the push-in retainers on my car. I will install nuts from the underside. Thanks to this thread, I know when to install them!

Bill

[Joel M.]

Re: C1 Top Fender Molding Studs

58 vin 2809 uses the push in retainer in the rearmost position.