Points loss for non-original side exhaust on a 65-67?

[Gary B.]

Anyone know off the top of their head what the total points loss would be for a car with non-original side exhaust that is detected during judging?

I can find 40 on the chassis sheets, plus 30 (rocker panel section) on the exterior. Are there more somewhere else?

Gary

[Paul O.]

Re: Points loss for non-original side exhaust on a 65-67?

Gary I would think you would also loss some originality point for fiberglass rear valance area and then for the damage to the front fenders would come to mind.

Paul 18046

[Gary B.]

Points loss for non-original side exhaust on a 65-67?

Paul,

Yup. I also just found another 8 pts for exhaust bezels on the Exterior judging sheets. So, we're up to 78 counting those lost points.

I can't find where the rear valance is judged. Is that with "Body Fiberglass and Component Fit" on the Exterior judging sheets? Other that there I don't see any explicit mention of the rear valance, except for rear valance panel attachment, which would not depend on undercar vs. side exhaust.

Maybe Body Fiberglass and Comp. Fit covers both the front door/fender area changes and the missing holes in the rear valance? Anyone know? That's a huge category in terms of points: 65 (orig) and 55 (cond). But I can't imaging the changes for side exhaust would lead to a big loss there, since percentage wise they don't represent much fiberglass.

Gary

[Gerard F.]

Re: Points loss for non-original side exhaust on a 65-67?

Anyone know off the top of their head what the total points loss would be for a car with non-original side exhaust that is detected during judging?

I can find 40 on the chassis sheets, plus 30 (rocker panel section) on the exterior. Are there more somewhere else?

Gary

Gary,

I looked on the score sheets and that was all I found. Maybe on exterior, the lack of exhaust bezels in the rear would add to the deductions.

I thought we were told at one of the events where we judged chassis, that there was standard deduction for added on side exhaust. There probably should be, and it should be a heavy overall deduction bordering on counterfeit. Sidepipe cars from the factory should be revered, even though they are noisey.

I'm still PO'ed about the total deduct on paint I took because I put white vinyl on my 67 hardtop. i kept telling the judges that the original paint was under, but to no avail from the team leader. But, it is all in the game and I understand the rules. The vinyl top is now gone, and I'm restoring it to original.

Next time we judge, I want you to teach me how to recognize an add-on side exhaust system.

Regards,

[Russ S.]

Re: Points loss for non-original side exhaust on a 65-67?

Also ground straps.

[Paul O.]

Re: Points loss for non-original side exhaust on a 65-67?

Gary

The rear valance is part of the exterior judging body fiberglass. So the missing holes (body) and the bezels (trim) are part of the deductions. Plus if there is damage due to the side exhaust pipes to allow clearance at the fenders that is also considered part of the body but that is condition.

I am not aware of a standard deduction for the under chassis exhaust to side exhaust conversion.

Paul 18046

[Reba W.]

Re: Points loss for non-original side exhaust on a 65-67?

Standard from the latest Judging Reference Manual:

9. ADDED OR DELETED OPTIONS
The detectable addition OR deletion of any regular-production vehicle option subsequent to factory assembly is inconsistent with NCRS Judging Standards and therefore subject to a full deduction on originality and condition. Examples: power top, windshield washers, power windows, power steering, power brakes, side-mounted exhaust. Refer to Section 6, item #3 Judging Purpose & Standard, pertaining to option addition or deletion for information with respect to performance verification testing.

Don't forget that when at least 90% of the originality column is lost, so is the condition column beside it.

[Steve B.]

Re: Points loss for non-original side exhaust on a 65-67?

I was told that the total point loss is about 100.

[Paul O.]

Re: Points loss for non-original side exhaust on a 65-67?

Standard from the latest Judging Reference Manual:

9. ADDED OR DELETED OPTIONS
The detectable addition OR deletion of any regular-production vehicle option subsequent to factory assembly is inconsistent with NCRS Judging Standards and therefore subject to a full deduction on originality and condition. Examples: power top, windshield washers, power windows, power steering, power brakes, side-mounted exhaust. Refer to Section 6, item #3 Judging Purpose & Standard, pertaining to option addition or deletion for information with respect to performance verification testing.

Don't forget that when at least 90% of the originality column is lost, so is the condition column beside it.

Reba good catch forgot about the added or delete item.

Paul 18046

[Jim R.]

Re: Points loss for non-original side exhaust on a 65-67?

I remember asking this about a year ago and i think it was around 80 points. jim

[Bill W.]

Re: Points loss for non-original side exhaust on a 65-67?

I remember asking this about a year ago and i think it was around 80 points. jim

People,
I just returned from the Joplin regional where my 1966 coupe with side pipes added was judged. My sheets have not been returned yet, but when they get here I'll total the point loss for the side pipes and post it here. I think it will be 120-140 or in that area. It's a heavy hit, as it should be, but in my case it made little differance in flight judging. Why? Because I drove the car from Albuquerque. Doing so gave me 800 driving points. I lost a total of 453 but when you add the driving points I wound up with about 103 percent. So my car is officially better than when it was new!
It was great to see Joplin back in the regional lineup, Kansas City, St. Louis and the Tulsa chapters did a fine job, looking forward to another trip there soon. Bill

[Gary B.]

Points loss for non-original side exhaust on a 65-67?

... Next time we judge, I want you to teach me how to recognize an add-on side exhaust system.

Jerry,

I'd be very happy to show you the tell-tale things I've seen. Some of the items that one is supposed to look for, threads in ground strap holes are very difficult to check unless the car is on a lift, but the last 3 cars I've judged with added side-exhaust were no-brainers to detect and easy to point out to someone who's interested in knowing what to look for.

Gary

[John H.]

Re: Points loss for non-original side exhaust on a 65-67?

Don't forget Ops (exhaust tone, noise) - that's another big hit. I think if a Standard Deduction was developed that considered everything non-typical and missing, it would be 120-130 points.

[Tracy C.]

Re: Points loss for non-original side exhaust on a 65-67?

Just to clarify the issue for myself,

Do all missing under car components get full deduct for originallity and condition points because they are missing?

And then, are the added side exhaust components subject to originallity and condition points judging as if they were "supposed" to be there?

tc

[Gary B.]

Re: Points loss for non-original side exhaust on a 65-67?

Just to clarify the issue for myself,

Do all missing under car components get full deduct for originallity and condition points because they are missing?

And then, are the added side exhaust components subject to originallity and condition points judging as if they were "supposed" to be there?

tc

Yes on the first question. No on the second. The side exhaust components are not judged in terms of anything once it's been determined to be not original.

Gary