I'm really getting bummed out!!!!!

[Donald H.]

I though I had a correctly stamped original engine. I had used this forum a while back to get some opinions of my engine pad and all felt it was a correct stamp. Of course, the pictures were of the engine in the car and some paint on the pad, so they were not the best.

I got my engine back from the machine shop last week. I have a friend of a friend who is rebuilding the engine with me. He did most of the dealing with the machine shop. So last night he came over to start the rebuild, and in passing he mentioned that the machine shop guy said "you do know that this engine has been restamped". So my questions were, what did he see that would give him that opinion. The builder is a corvette guy, but not into the numbers, so the only thing he said was that the machine shop guy said there were two stamps. I don't really want to call the machine shop guy and quiz him, he's not the most customer friendly person I have ever met.

I have looked and looked at all angles and can't see any other stamp image. I'm so new at this that of course I would not bet anything on what I know or see.

I have attached a picture. My eyes may be fooling me, but I think I can see broach marks all the way through the pad. There are some scratch marks across the stamping, but I took those to be where someone had scratched the paint off to get a better look at the pad. As I said, when I got the car, it had some paint on the pad.

Can someone either bum me out more, or give me some encouragement.

Thanks,

Don

[Duke W.]

Re: I'm really getting bummed out!!!!!

I don't think the pad is typical production. The "broach marks" look faked and not very well... looks like they were made with a large diameter sanding disk because they have an arc.

The stamped data is very uniform - all dies have equal or no wear, which is not typical. Also the VIN derivative font may be too large, and it looks like the guy who stamped the data was very careful to line up the gang holders horizontally, which is unusual.

When you get the short block assembled, measure deck clearance and the data will likely tell you if the block has been decked.

Duke

[Tracy C.]

Re: I'm really getting bummed out!!!!!

I am by no means an expert but I would tend to agree with Duke's comments here. The broach mark appear to have some curvature and the VIN derivitive characters seem to be too large and odd.

tc

[Joe M.]

Re: I'm really getting bummed out!!!!!

I have more bad news to offer. My engine pad was stamped 325 blocks later than yours and the "1" on your pad is the wrong type of numeral shape. The short bar on the top of the "1" should be straight, not looped down. The VIN derivative is too uniform; like it was stamped using a gang or holder. Some of my numbers are crooked and not all perfectly lined up at the bottom. The engine assembly date stamp looks like my original stamping does; thin letters and numbers that were probably stamped using a gang or holder and about the correct spacing between characters.

[Kenneth H.]

Re: I'm really getting bummed out!!!!!

Don, could you post a link to the original thread for this "I had used this forum a while back to get some opinions of my engine pad and all felt it was a correct stamp." I looked but couldn't find it.

Thanks.

[Edward L.]

Re: I'm really getting bummed out!!!!!

First, let's not get into the "it's the wrong font", "Characters too straight" discussion. Flint used a lot of different suppliers for the stamps, and to call a pad because everything lines up is to venture into the land of subjectivety. These items can be argued until hell freezes over.

However, in the case of this pad, what cannot be argued is the fact that a pad grind out has occurred in a manner never employed by the Flint plant.

As mentioned in other posts, the "broach" has a curved chartacteristic. The surface of the stamp pad should look like the rest of the cylinder deck since the broaching operation cut the entire surface at the same time.

Clearly, that is not the case here.

[Don H.]

Re: I'm really getting bummed out!!!!!

Don, could you post a link to the original thread for this "I had used this forum a while back to get some opinions of my engine pad and all felt it was a correct stamp." I looked but couldn't find it.

Thanks.

I'm a different Donald, but I was curious too, so I looked it up, and I think I found it.

https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthre...78395&uid=5544

It was actually someone else's thread, and the photo provided for this pad was not really good at all for making any judgement, other than to say that the broach marks look quite pronounced. The only opinion I could see in the thread for this pad was that it looked questionable.

[Lawrence M.]

Re: I'm really getting bummed out!!!!!

Donald attached is a picture I took of my 69 small block pad last winter. You can see the broach marks are straight.

[Clem Z.]

Re: I'm really getting bummed out!!!!!

Donald attached is a picture I took of my 69 small block pad last winter. You can see the broach marks are straight.

i can't believe that the guys doing this do not at least pull the head to make the brotch marks look a little bit correct.

[Paul B.]

Re: I'm really getting bummed out!!!!!

Donald attached is a picture I took of my 69 small block pad last winter. You can see the broach marks are straight.

WOW...#38305. Is this a "last day" production '69??? Very neat. What is the build date of the car???

[Domenic T.]

Re: I'm really getting bummed out!!!!!

Donald,

You are very honest to post this especially after your earlier post.

I agree with all above posts but you will just have to live with it now and do your best.

After all is said, if it was re-stamped, at least that is what it looked like when it was born.

There are not as many original engines in our cars as one thinks. In the 70's my friend wanted me rebuild the engine in his 64 vette. I had one of my spare engines done on the stand when he got there and he said he wanted it, just exchange them.

When I bought 2 vettes that were damaged I got them cheaper because I asked if I could buy them less engine & trans. Not to smart now but it made sence then in the 70's.

You can lift your old #s if they are infact old #s. The broach marks are a give away but don't rule out the slim possibility that a previous owner tried to re-stamp his old #s to make them stand out.

DOM

[Donald H.]

Re: I'm really getting bummed out!!!!!

It would have been nice for the machine shop to have raised the issue earlier before I spent a lot of extra money to "save the original engine". Since it had already been bored twice the engine builder suggested and I agreed to go to .080 over which meant custom pistons, and all new internals, rods, cam, lifters, etc. etc. etc.!!

Am I wasting my time now to even consider having the car judged?
I bought the car originally to have a good quality driver, but because so much else was wrong with it I ended up doing a full frame off. As a beginner and nieve to think that a collector selling this car would be honest in presenting what the car was, so I got screwed!

So was considering going through judging. But if a restamp is considered a counterfeit then I will just live with a extremely high quality driver.

If I read the the 8th addition of the Judging Reference Manual correctly, one example of restoration that is not considered counterfeiting is "stamping a 435-HP block to conform to the date/serial number of the original 435-HP Corvette in which it is to be installed". Does this mean that restamping is acceptable as long as you are not trying to make the car something it never was?


Don

[Clem Z.]

Re: I'm really getting bummed out!!!!!

It would have been nice for the machine shop to have raised the issue earlier before I spent a lot of extra money to "save the original engine". Since it had already been bored twice the engine builder suggested and I agreed to go to .080 over which meant custom pistons, and all new internals, rods, cam, lifters, etc. etc. etc.!!

Am I wasting my time now to even consider having the car judged?
I bought the car originally to have a good quality driver, but because so much else was wrong with it I ended up doing a full frame off. As a beginner and nieve to think that a collector selling this car would be honest in presenting what the car was, so I got screwed!

So was considering going through judging. But if a restamp is considered a counterfeit then I will just live with a extremely high quality driver.

If I read the the 8th addition of the Judging Reference Manual correctly, one example of restoration that is not considered counterfeiting is "stamping a 435-HP block to conform to the date/serial number of the original 435-HP Corvette in which it is to be installed". Does this mean that restamping is acceptable as long as you are not trying to make the car something it never was?


Don

i would sell it and buy yourself a NEW C6 and enjoy what corvette owning is really all about. this way you will not have ulcers and loose sleep.

[Domenic T.]

Re: I'm really getting bummed out!!!!!

Don,
I think you did the right thing, maybe the rods were not needed but that engine can go over .100 bore and most likely this is it's last one NEEDED as it will be maintained to the hilt.

I have a 435 warranty engine that has CE #s. I was told many times to deck it and restamp when I rebuilt it but it is what it is.

Your block has the right casting #s so keep it and enjoy. We all get screwed a little and we just have to do the best with what we have.

DOM

It would have been nice for the machine shop to have raised the issue earlier before I spent a lot of extra money to "save the original engine". Since it had already been bored twice the engine builder suggested and I agreed to go to .080 over which meant custom pistons, and all new internals, rods, cam, lifters, etc. etc. etc.!!

Am I wasting my time now to even consider having the car judged?
I bought the car originally to have a good quality driver, but because so much else was wrong with it I ended up doing a full frame off. As a beginner and nieve to think that a collector selling this car would be honest in presenting what the car was, so I got screwed!

So was considering going through judging. But if a restamp is considered a counterfeit then I will just live with a extremely high quality driver.

If I read the the 8th addition of the Judging Reference Manual correctly, one example of restoration that is not considered counterfeiting is "stamping a 435-HP block to conform to the date/serial number of the original 435-HP Corvette in which it is to be installed". Does this mean that restamping is acceptable as long as you are not trying to make the car something it never was?


Don

[Jack C.]

Re: I'm really getting bummed out!!!!!

Restamping/stamping it to the original configuration is OK. Making it something it wasn't originally is counterfeiting.