1965 original L78s ?

[Gary C.]

Re: 1965 original L78s ?

Mine is 18669 silver/silver coupe, the build time line is below;

[Patrick B.]

Re: 1965 original L78s ?

I don't know if the VIN numbers of the first 396's have been established, but I have some evidence that may be of interest to the readers of this thread.

The Tonawanda build date and engine code stampings for small blocks and 409s (the immediate predicessor of the 396) were stamped on the right side of the pad. However, we are used to seeing 396s and 427s with the Tonawanda stampings on the left side of the pad and the VIN stamping on the right side of the pad.

The very first 396's were stamped on the right side of the pad like a 409, not on the left side as we are used to seeing. However this practice caused a problem for the St Louis plant when it tried to stamp the VIN. The big plug in the front of the head interfered with the VIN stamp holder, so the VIN could not be stamped on the left side of the pad like a small block. Therefore, the VIN had to stamped on the right side of the pad partially overlapping the Tonowanda stamp. I don't know how long it took for the Tonowanda plant to change the stamp location to the left side of the pad, but I'll bet wasn't more than a couple of weeks.

Years ago I observed (and made a rubbing of) a 396 block out of a Corvette with T0313IF on the right hand side of the pad and the VIN stamped over the Tonawanda code. The VIN was 5113961, and I think this was one of the first 396 Corvettes. The block casting date was B-20-5.

Allan Colvin's book "Chevrolet by the Numbers 1965-69" shows another 396 with T0319IX on the right hand side of the pad and a crude Z-16 Chevelle VIN also crowded toward the right side. Colvin also reports that the 396 engine was "introduced" on Feb 15, 1965, but who knows how much time was spent between "introduction" of the engine and the first 396 Corvettes. I would be suspicious of Corvettes much ealier than 5113961. I also have a 3855962 block with a casting date of B-4-5 which could have been build for the Feb 15 intruduction, but unfortunately it was decked and whatever information it had was lost.

[Bill W.]

Re: 1965 original L78s ?

I have 12 cars on my list of vins that are before 13961. At least one is stamped backwards .One has a Duntov and a B.G. And one claims to be a bowtie. #s are 12201 up to 13808.I dont know if all are real. At least 4 had nom. One was Block only.

[Carl N.]

Re: 1965 original L78s ?

Just a bit of triva - there were 201 Z-16 Malibu/Chevelles built and according to many sources 20 service engines so a total of 221 962 blocks for the Z16 cars

Also several surveys indicate 3,684 Impalas, Caprices, Bisquicks, & Belairs had the 4 bolt 962 block.

All of the full size cars and the very few Z16's I have had the chance to look at over the past 20 years of so in the southwest all have production dates beginning late in February

Just triva

[Clem Z.]

Re: 1965 original L78s ?

my factory pick up was 14271 and i picked it up april 16. i was told that it was the 6th 396 corvette built by the people at the factory. the shipping paper are posted here on the website.

[Patrick B.]

Re: 1965 original L78s ?

my factory pick up was 14271 and i picked it up april 16. i was told that it was the 6th 396 corvette built by the people at the factory. the shipping paper are posted here on the website.

That fits pretty well with the idea that 13961 was near the beginning for 396 Corvettes. I would expect that all earlier cars would have the Tonowanda stamp on the right since Alan Colvin's picture showed a block built 6 days later with the stamping still on the right. Also both 5113961 and Colvin's picture show stampings with the last letter stamped outside of the gang stamp grouping which ended in "I".

[Patrick B.]

Re: 1965 original L78s ?

I have 12 cars on my list of vins that are before 13961. At least one is stamped backwards .One has a Duntov and a B.G. And one claims to be a bowtie. #s are 12201 up to 13808.I dont know if all are real. At least 4 had nom. One was Block only.

Which side of the pad has the Tonawanda stamp on #12201? I think this would be a very good way to identify original engines in early cars. Do any of the followers of this string have a 396 with the Tonawanda stamp on the right?

[Wayne M.]

Re: 1965 original L78s ?

That fits pretty well with the idea that 13961 was near the beginning for 396 Corvettes......

Then there's L78 # 12864, entered in Bloomington special collection 1995, then owned by Bill Mock. Story goes that racer Cliff Gottlob, through his contacts at Chevrolet, placed his special order in Oct '64, knowing that the 396 was in the planning, with help of Ralph Miller and Vince Piggins. This car built (after many delays) on Friday March 19th.

[Clem Z.]

Re: 1965 original L78s ?

Then there's L78 # 12864, entered in Bloomington special collection 1995, then owned by Bill Mock. Story goes that racer Cliff Gottlob, through his contacts at Chevrolet, placed his special order in Oct '64, knowing that the 396 was in the planning, with help of Ralph Miller and Vince Piggins. This car built (after many delays) on Friday March 19th.

my contact at the time was bill howell who worked for vince at "product promotion"

[Chris H.]

Re: 1965 original L78s ?

This is my friends old L78. Very early car, 15xxx. Extensive So Cal race history. Autograph is Elliot Forbes Robinson, prepped by Dick Gulstrand. Still has original motor. Had an L72 in it at one point but he put the 396 back in it because it was stronger.

[Mike D.]

Re: 1965 original L78s ?

I also have a Maroon Conv. with orig side exhaust . and without a radio.(missing original block #17346.) I have about 285 396s on my list dated back to about 1981.

I just brought home a silver/red 396 basket case coupe missing the engine, tranny, and the original side pipes

[Michael S.]

Re: 1965 original L78s ?

Wish I had it today but I had a beautiful Nassau blue, blue/white interior convertible in the early 80's. Car had the original motor and was white when I bought it at auction from the State Police, as it had been seized from a drug dealer in Massachusetts. When I had it stripped down to paint the correct color, it had never been hit. One day on a cruise, a valve spring retainer broke, swallowed a valve, cracked the cylinder wall, and I traded it away for a 67 350 HP, AC, white with red, convertibe. The motor was sleeved by the fellow I traded it to and the original motor survived, at least to that point, 1984. He then sold it up on the north shore in Mass but I have no idea where it went.

Mike

[Clem Z.]

Re: 1965 original L78s ?

Wish I had it today but I had a beautiful Nassau blue, blue/white interior convertible in the early 80's. Car had the original motor and was white when I bought it at auction from the State Police, as it had been seized from a drug dealer in Massachusetts. When I had it stripped down to paint the correct color, it had never been hit. One day on a cruise, a valve spring retainer broke, swallowed a valve, cracked the cylinder wall, and I traded it away for a 67 350 HP, AC, white with red, convertibe. The motor was sleeved by the fellow I traded it to and the original motor survived, at least to that point, 1984. He then sold it up on the north shore in Mass but I have no idea where it went.

Mike

a lot of BBC dropped valves and that is why GM changed the retainers and valve keys

[Stanley S.]

Re: 1965 original L78s ?

I don't know if the VIN numbers of the first 396's have been established, but I have some evidence that may be of interest to the readers of this thread.

The Tonawanda build date and engine code stampings for small blocks and 409s (the immediate predicessor of the 396) were stamped on the right side of the pad. However, we are used to seeing 396s and 427s with the Tonawanda stampings on the left side of the pad and the VIN stamping on the right side of the pad.

The very first 396's were stamped on the right side of the pad like a 409, not on the left side as we are used to seeing. However this practice caused a problem for the St Louis plant when it tried to stamp the VIN. The big plug in the front of the head interfered with the VIN stamp holder, so the VIN could not be stamped on the left side of the pad like a small block. Therefore, the VIN had to stamped on the right side of the pad partially overlapping the Tonowanda stamp. I don't know how long it took for the Tonowanda plant to change the stamp location to the left side of the pad, but I'll bet wasn't more than a couple of weeks.

Years ago I observed (and made a rubbing of) a 396 block out of a Corvette with T0313IF on the right hand side of the pad and the VIN stamped over the Tonawanda code. The VIN was 5113961, and I think this was one of the first 396 Corvettes. The block casting date was B-20-5.

Allan Colvin's book "Chevrolet by the Numbers 1965-69" shows another 396 with T0319IX on the right hand side of the pad and a crude Z-16 Chevelle VIN also crowded toward the right side. Colvin also reports that the 396 engine was "introduced" on Feb 15, 1965, but who knows how much time was spent between "introduction" of the engine and the first 396 Corvettes. I would be suspicious of Corvettes much ealier than 5113961. I also have a 3855962 block with a casting date of B-4-5 which could have been build for the Feb 15 intruduction, but unfortunately it was decked and whatever information it had was lost.

Patrick
My 396 with block casting date B-20-5 and engine stamp T0324IF has the VIN on the right and engine stamp on the left so they had it changed at least by then. My VIN is 34 after Clem's. Stan

[Wayne M.]

Re: 1965 original L78s ?

.....My 396 with block casting date B-20-5 and engine stamp T0324IF has the VIN on the right and engine stamp on the left so they had it changed at least by then. My VIN is 34 after Clem's...

Corvette book "State of the Art", by Burroughs, follows restoration of an early L78, cast C-16-5. Shot of engine pad on pg. 71 shows T0329IF ___ 5114971, in the later order.

A. Colvin also mentions the change in "Chev by the Numbers, '65-'69"; shows pic of Chevelle Z16 with Assy code on inboard side (T0318IX), whith the hand-stamped VIN 5K1(688 ?)5, almost off the bottom edge and in the center, to avoid the head plug [pg 37].