8000 RPM Airbox Tach and Black Widow question

[Bruce B.]

I know that the tach when used in an airbox car is driven by the distributor and is marked "registers twice cable speed".

When the 8000 rpm tach is used in a Black Widow 57 Chevy is it tack or generator driven?

Thanks

[Tom P.]

Re: 8000 RPM Airbox Tach and Black Widow question

That's an excellent question, I'd like to know myself.
If driven by the distributor, then the dist had to be a 908. As I understand, the Black Widows were produced fairly early (Jan-Feb 57????) and according to Ken Kayser's book, the 908 dist wasn't available until later.
If the 8000 AC tach was generator driven, then those generators were in service starting with the 55 V8 Vettes.

There seems to be a lot of debate about the existance of any ORIGINAL CONFIGURATION Black Widows. Early on, NASCAR disallowed fuel injection and mandated a single 4bl carb. Thus, it would seem that ANY original FI Black Widows had their FI and Dist removed/replaced by a carb. Soooooooooooooooo, where are those ORIGINAL FI units and dist from the original Black Widows?

Furthermore, if the FI Black Widows were built in the Jan-Feb time frame, then it would seem they had the 4360 FI units because the 4520 FI units were NOT released until Feb 28 or later. Again, according to Ken, 57 pass cars DID NOT get the later 4520 units until Feb 28 or later. The first FI units for pass cars were 4520 units, which makes the FIRST FI pass cars VERY late Feb-early Mar cars.
The FIRST FI distributors were 889, 905, 906, and NONE of those had a tach drive.

So, where the heck am I going with all of this? Well, I would suspect the original Black Widows had the 8000 AC tach driven by a generator.
SURELY there is a Black Widow guru somewhere among this exceedingly authorative group.

[Clem Z.]

Re: 8000 RPM Airbox Tach and Black Widow question

That's an excellent question, I'd like to know myself.
If driven by the distributor, then the dist had to be a 908. As I understand, the Black Widows were produced fairly early (Jan-Feb 57????) and according to Ken Kayser's book, the 908 dist wasn't available until later.
If the 8000 AC tach was generator driven, then those generators were in service starting with the 55 V8 Vettes.

There seems to be a lot of debate about the existance of any ORIGINAL CONFIGURATION Black Widows. Early on, NASCAR disallowed fuel injection and mandated a single 4bl carb. Thus, it would seem that ANY original FI Black Widows had their FI and Dist removed/replaced by a carb. Soooooooooooooooo, where are those ORIGINAL FI units and dist from the original Black Widows?

Furthermore, if the FI Black Widows were built in the Jan-Feb time frame, then it would seem they had the 4360 FI units because the 4520 FI units were NOT released until Feb 28 or later. Again, according to Ken, 57 pass cars DID NOT get the later 4520 units until Feb 28 or later. The first FI units for pass cars were 4520 units, which makes the FIRST FI pass cars VERY late Feb-early Mar cars.
The FIRST FI distributors were 889, 905, 906, and NONE of those had a tach drive.

So, where the heck am I going with all of this? Well, I would suspect the original Black Widows had the 8000 AC tach driven by a generator.
SURELY there is a Black Widow guru somewhere among this exceedingly authorative group.

we had our FI 150 sedan in late 1956 time frame as we had to get it ready to race at the beach race in daytona in feb 57. we use a electric tach. the car was driven by ed fiola and we burned a piston and towed it to smokeys to put in a new one because back them we drove the cars to the races and had to drive them back home. we qualified 12th for that race. the next race we went to was langhorne and by then NASCAR had us using a carb instead of FI. we ran out of gas that day and after that the car was put back on the street with the FI installed. i have no idea where it went. i know it won a lot of street races roll cage and all.

[Gary C.]

Re: 8000 RPM Airbox Tach and Black Widow question

1957 Chevrolet Stock Car Competition Guide shows a 905 distribution and a "Sun" style tach. Gary....

[Cecil L.]

Re: 8000 RPM Airbox Tach and Black Widow question

That's an excellent question, I'd like to know myself.
If driven by the distributor, then the dist had to be a 908. As I understand, the Black Widows were produced fairly early (Jan-Feb 57????) and according to Ken Kayser's book, the 908 dist wasn't available until later.
If the 8000 AC tach was generator driven, then those generators were in service starting with the 55 V8 Vettes.

There seems to be a lot of debate about the existance of any ORIGINAL CONFIGURATION Black Widows. Early on, NASCAR disallowed fuel injection and mandated a single 4bl carb. Thus, it would seem that ANY original FI Black Widows had their FI and Dist removed/replaced by a carb. Soooooooooooooooo, where are those ORIGINAL FI units and dist from the original Black Widows?

Furthermore, if the FI Black Widows were built in the Jan-Feb time frame, then it would seem they had the 4360 FI units because the 4520 FI units were NOT released until Feb 28 or later. Again, according to Ken, 57 pass cars DID NOT get the later 4520 units until Feb 28 or later. The first FI units for pass cars were 4520 units, which makes the FIRST FI pass cars VERY late Feb-early Mar cars.
The FIRST FI distributors were 889, 905, 906, and NONE of those had a tach drive.

So, where the heck am I going with all of this? Well, I would suspect the original Black Widows had the 8000 AC tach driven by a generator.
SURELY there is a Black Widow guru somewhere among this exceedingly authorative group.

905, according to the 57 Stock Car Competion Guide. No specific tach is listed as "Heavy Duty " equipment, so it seems likely that it is RPO or aftermarket, but in either case not Distributor driven:

[Clem Z.]

Re: 8000 RPM Airbox Tach and Black Widow question

1957 Chevrolet Stock Car Competition Guide shows a 905 distribution and a "Sun" style tach. Gary....

i still have my copy also

[Clem Z.]

Re: 8000 RPM Airbox Tach and Black Widow question

when we arrived in daytona chevy gave us aniline(sp?) to put into the gasoline to prevent piston problems but it did not work as even smokeys car with paul goldschmidt driving burned a piston while leading. i think the problem was cause by the fuel shut off when coasting built into the FI caused the problem but i am no FI expert

[Clem Z.]

Re: 8000 RPM Airbox Tach and Black Widow question

1957 Chevrolet Stock Car Competition Guide shows a 905 distribution and a "Sun" style tach. Gary....

you know that was printed after the 57 daytona race because that picture was taken at the track

[Clem Z.]

Re: 8000 RPM Airbox Tach and Black Widow question

here are some pictures of the car. the article says we finished 12th but we qualified 12th. NASCAR changed our number when we got there and that is why the big square as a number background

[Mike M.]

Re: 8000 RPM Airbox Tach and Black Widow question

our original 57 pass car FI has its original rochester. its a 4520. car vin vb57a178686 was built in atlanta in april or may as best i can recall.its a 210 post, 250 HP 3 speed. still had its close ratio 3 speed when i restored it years ago. it still had its electrovac and the micro switch on the vac wiper motor. mike

[Bruce B.]

Re: 8000 RPM Airbox Tach and Black Widow question

That's an excellent question, I'd like to know myself.
If driven by the distributor, then the dist had to be a 908. As I understand, the Black Widows were produced fairly early (Jan-Feb 57????) and according to Ken Kayser's book, the 908 dist wasn't available until later.
If the 8000 AC tach was generator driven, then those generators were in service starting with the 55 V8 Vettes.

There seems to be a lot of debate about the existance of any ORIGINAL CONFIGURATION Black Widows. Early on, NASCAR disallowed fuel injection and mandated a single 4bl carb. Thus, it would seem that ANY original FI Black Widows had their FI and Dist removed/replaced by a carb. Soooooooooooooooo, where are those ORIGINAL FI units and dist from the original Black Widows?

Furthermore, if the FI Black Widows were built in the Jan-Feb time frame, then it would seem they had the 4360 FI units because the 4520 FI units were NOT released until Feb 28 or later. Again, according to Ken, 57 pass cars DID NOT get the later 4520 units until Feb 28 or later. The first FI units for pass cars were 4520 units, which makes the FIRST FI pass cars VERY late Feb-early Mar cars.
The FIRST FI distributors were 889, 905, 906, and NONE of those had a tach drive.

So, where the heck am I going with all of this? Well, I would suspect the original Black Widows had the 8000 AC tach driven by a generator.
SURELY there is a Black Widow guru somewhere among this exceedingly authorative group.

Tom, great info and more questions.
If 905 was the distributor used then the tach would be generator driven and woulkd be stamped registers cable speed
I know of 2 Corvette guys that own Black Widow cars, I hope the jump in and answer your question. Come on George S. and Lyle D. answer the question.

[Tom P.]

Re: 8000 RPM Airbox Tach and Black Widow question

Bruce,
I suppose consideration also has to be given to the possibility (or probability) that an elec tach was used in these cars, such as a Sun tach, per Gary's comment.
Also, Clem states that he had a 150 sedan with FI in the later period of 1956. He says they had burned piston issues, and Ken Kayser discusses piston development efforts that were done for similar reasons.
Ken's information seems quite conclusive that the (regular production) pass cars DID NOT get FI until the 4520 units were released into production (VERY late Feb or early Mar). So, if Clem had an FI pass car in late 1956, then the FI unit on that car HAD TO BE a 4360. I do not dispute Clem's claim to owning a 57 FI car in late 56, but it would be interesting to know how he managed to acquire that car BEFORE pass cars were officially available with FI!
Clem-----------comments?
It is a well known fact that often times in GM's past, certain people were able to acquire/posess unique vehicles, engines, etc, when the general public never even was aware of such a thing.

[Clem Z.]

Re: 8000 RPM Airbox Tach and Black Widow question

Bruce,
I suppose consideration also has to be given to the possibility (or probability) that an elec tach was used in these cars, such as a Sun tach, per Gary's comment.
Also, Clem states that he had a 150 sedan with FI in the later period of 1956. He says they had burned piston issues, and Ken Kayser discusses piston development efforts that were done for similar reasons.
Ken's information seems quite conclusive that the (regular production) pass cars DID NOT get FI until the 4520 units were released into production (VERY late Feb or early Mar). So, if Clem had an FI pass car in late 1956, then the FI unit on that car HAD TO BE a 4360. I do not dispute Clem's claim to owning a 57 FI car in late 56, but it would be interesting to know how he managed to acquire that car BEFORE pass cars were officially available with FI!
Clem-----------comments?
It is a well known fact that often times in GM's past, certain people were able to acquire/posess unique vehicles, engines, etc, when the general public never even was aware of such a thing.

Clem-----------comments? i did not own the car it was owned by geo mellinger of herminie and came in thru moravitz chevy in herminie. geo also owned chevys we raced in 55 and 56 in NASCAR so that is likely how he got the car. a lot of people at daytona wonder how a little dealer from a small town in pa got a FI chevy. the car was built at allwine and currys service garage on rt 30 east of greensburg. FI john D knows where that is located. ted wright who owned united vending co bank rolled our racing back then.

[Clem Z.]

Re: 8000 RPM Airbox Tach and Black Widow question

go here and drop down to #49. http://racing-reference.info/race/1957-04/W they have geo's name spelled wrong

[Bruce B.]

Re: 8000 RPM Airbox Tach and Black Widow question

I know that the tach when used in an airbox car is driven by the distributor and is marked "registers twice cable speed".

When the 8000 rpm tach is used in a Black Widow 57 Chevy is it tack or generator driven?

Thanks

Woops, last sentance should read "distributor or generator driven".