Survivor vs Fully Restored?

[Patrick H.]

Re: Survivor vs Fully Restored?

Survivor and Gold, but only 1 Star via NCRS?

For the low mileage I suspect that more has been touched up or massaged or replaced than I might normally expect. At least you wouldn't have to worry about 3 of the 4 areas of teh car when it came to maintenance and originality.

Patrick

[Michael J.]

Re: Survivor vs Fully Restored?

Wow, and that houndstooth is cool too. Reminds me of my '69 SS396 Camaro with yellow and black houndstooth, had no idea they put them on Corvettes.

[Chuck A.]

Re: Survivor vs Fully Restored?

Patrick Hulst (16386);583069]Survivor and Gold, but only 1 Star via NCRS?

For the low mileage I suspect that more has been touched up or massaged or replaced than I might normally expect. At least you wouldn't have to worry about 3 of the 4 areas of teh car when it came to maintenance and originality.

Hi Patrick,

Would this concern you if you were thinking of buying the car?

There is a very interesting story about this car... I believe it was the current owner that was discussing the car with a previous owner. The previous owner realized he still had the original transmission in his garage. It was purchased, restored and reinstalled into the car by the present owner. Could this be why the car only scored one star? Maybe it was judged before the tranny was reinstalled. Is this story a concern... fishy?

Again, thank you for your thoughts on this.

Chuck A
Myredslk@aol.com

[Chuck A.]

Re: Survivor vs Fully Restored?

Quote=Roy Sinor (2608);582856] [/quote]

Roy,

If the car has received an award from NCRS, does this automatically mean the papers have been validated? If not, how long does it take to get a validation?

Thanks,
Chuck A

[Roy S.]

Re: Survivor vs Fully Restored?

Quote=Roy Sinor (2608);582856] A restored vehicle is fine, Word of caution here if they restore vehicle to a level that even experts might not recognize a built vehicle, what do you think they do with paperwork. I would trust no paperwork period attached to any vehicle that had not been validated through the NCRS “Document Validation Service.” That process is black and white it uses GM records to validate paper not an expert’s opinion of the font, style, paper or look.

Roy,

If the car has received an award from NCRS, does this automatically mean the papers have been validated? If not, how long does it take to get a validation?

Thanks,
Chuck A[/quote]

Chuck let’s start from scratch or almost. Remember my comment about a survivor needing to be only 50% original in three of four sections. Well a Benchmark must be at least 50% original in four of four sections. What that means is that it can be 49.99% restored in four of four sections, when you message a car you do that, so if the car is spiffed up for the Benchmark 49.9 % restored to get the Gold award, then is it really original? Remember the Bowtie requires a 80-85% score. So this car received 1 star it was deemed by the NCRS judges to be 80 to 85 % original in 1 section. Earlier you asked about a transmission change, a transmission change would not necessarily fail the mechanical section if everything else was good it is one line item out of approximately 120.

The turnaround for a document validation if you order the expedited service is two to three days max.

NCRS does not as a practice validate paperwork as a part of the judging priocess.

[Patrick H.]

Re: Survivor vs Fully Restored?

Patrick Hulst (16386);583069]Survivor and Gold, but only 1 Star via NCRS?

For the low mileage I suspect that more has been touched up or massaged or replaced than I might normally expect. At least you wouldn't have to worry about 3 of the 4 areas of teh car when it came to maintenance and originality.

Hi Patrick,

Would this concern you if you were thinking of buying the car?

There is a very interesting story about this car... I believe it was the current owner that was discussing the car with a previous owner. The previous owner realized he still had the original transmission in his garage. It was purchased, restored and reinstalled into the car by the present owner. Could this be why the car only scored one star? Maybe it was judged before the tranny was reinstalled. Is this story a concern... fishy?

Again, thank you for your thoughts on this.

Chuck A
Myredslk@aol.com

See Roy's answer below.

You originally mention a 25000 mile "original" car. To me a 1 Star car doesnt qualify as being as original as I'd like despite the Survivor status. I suspect that a fair amount of it has been restored and cleaned to a better-than-factory level based on the photos. So, you really have what I would call a mixture of an original car and a refurbished car.

I'd also then wonder about the mileage and its accuracy.

However, since it's partially refurbished I suspect you could drive it without worrying too much if that is your goal.

[James W.]

Re: Survivor vs Fully Restored?

Wow, and that houndstooth is cool too. Reminds me of my '69 SS396 Camaro with yellow and black houndstooth, had no idea they put them on Corvettes.

Michael,

The luggage rack was added by either the dealer or the first owner of the car. My dad was the third owner; the guy he bought it from said the rack and the houndstooth seat insert material was in place when he bought it from the original owner. I remember the conversation between the second owner and my dad the day he bought the car, I was thirteen at the time. I remember the seller saying the original owner was in a band and hauled musical istruments in the car. This may be why the luggage rack was installed on the car. Inside the storage wells in the drain holes where the cap plugs should be are eye bolts with big fender washers on the inside and outside of the storage compartment held in place with a hex nuts. To date I have had no luck in trackng down the first and second owners.

Regards,

James West

[Ronald L.]

Re: Survivor vs Fully Restored?

Well for starters the PCV valve in that thing did not exist when the car was produced.

Then there is the case of the upper rad hose that did not hit production until June of 66, nice repro or NOS piece, but not correct for an early 450 car.

Valve covers look to be so good you could eat off them and there are lots of threads on how Chevy Orange was not glossy.

PCV hose is the new braided technology that was not used back then.

The rest of the engine probably has more things 'new' with different views.

How about the undercarriage?

Looks like a restored car. Nice. Red. Hot sweaty coupe if you ever drive it and the ambient temperature is greater that 50.

[Chuck A.]

Re: Survivor vs Fully Restored?

Here is a link to the same car in an earlier story. Seems there is no doubt about the car or its authenticity. Valve covers look pretty original to me...

Thanks again for everyones help and opinion. Personally, I love the car.

Chuck A

http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/specs/c2/1966/1966_427_450.html

[Ronald L.]

Re: Survivor vs Fully Restored?

The covers have been repainted and the bolts that hold them on & off the car are of a different color.

The oil cap, with originals being black oxide would not be possible except for that same piece being in an oxygen free environment to be that black. Does the color come off with lacquer thinner?

We have addressed the nature of real black oxide before on this forum...


Chuck are you the seller?

[Chuck A.]

Re: Survivor vs Fully Restored?

Ronald Lovelace (50931);583256]The covers have been repainted and the bolts that hold them on & off the car are of a different color.

The oil cap, with originals being black oxide would not be possible except for that same piece being in an oxygen free environment to be that black. Does the color come off with lacquer thinner?

We have addressed the nature of real black oxide before on this forum...


Chuck are you the seller?

No Ron, I am the potential buyer. My brother is selling the car for the seller in California and I was very interested in buying it due to all of the documentation.

Chuck A

[Mike G.]

Re: Survivor vs Fully Restored?

i like a restored car unless the survivor is a perfect low mile car that is show ready. alot of the survivor cars out there that i see are perfect cars to restore. the restoration and the research is what is fun to me. once i finish a car and get it judged it just sits around the garage until i sell it.

[Ronald L.]

Re: Survivor vs Fully Restored?

This red one sure sparkles like a nicely restored car

We should raise the bar on original paint and do carbon dating, that will solve the disputes like a broachbuster reveals interstitial rust between iron crystals.

[Mike G.]

Re: Survivor vs Fully Restored?

This red one sure sparkles like a nicely restored car

We should raise the bar on original paint and do carbon dating, that will solve the disputes like a broachbuster reveals interstitial rust between iron crystals.

then someone would figure out a way to mix old 50 year old carbon in to the paint so it would be period correct. then we would all have to pay out the a$$ for correct carbon dated matching paint. no matter what we look for someone out there has a trick for that. the world is getting more and more like an iphone every day... there's an app for that.

[Kevin G.]

Re: Survivor vs Fully Restored?

Terry,

Unfortunately I do not know, the new system is not as user friendly and sortable as the old system was, now it requires a request for a report to be built and they have a back log of that type stuff. Before the switch over, there were 16 my guess would be there are now 20.

Very interesting!

Hmm.
You make me want to try for #21....

??? #22 ??? After my attempt? 2013 NC?

The knowledge on proper preparation for the attempt.

Without the encouragement from this member, and one or two others, I would have never thought of attempting a PV! Must be of interest to many, look at the view count!