70 Trim Ring Judging

[Bill L.]

I have two sets of rings. The originals that may or may not be restorable with clips in correct location and a second set of very very nice GM replacement rings with incorrect clip location.

Do you receive any originality points for the GM replacement rings with different clip placement.

Thanks,


Bill

[Paul O.]

Re: 70 Trim Ring Judging

Bill

I am going to turn this around and ask if you were judging the car and used CDCIF (Configuration, Date, Complete, Installation and Finish) standard for judging.

What would your call be for the wheel covers if each area is worth 20% of the available points?

I am not testing you just trying to help.

Paul 18046

[Bill L.]

Re: 70 Trim Ring Judging

When you say it like that

I see there are a total of 56 points. 32 for originality and 24 for condition.

When it is broken down that way I would think that up to 90% of the points would be awarded for the original rings and maybe 40-60% for the non original GM replacement rings.

I am I thinking through this correctly Paul?

Never had a car judged and never judged a car myself.

[Paul O.]

Re: 70 Trim Ring Judging

Bill

Just stay on the originality side for now. For Wheel covers or Hub Caps and Trim Rings there is 16 originality points available. Since you have 4 Hub Caps & 4 Trim Rings the points will be divided 8 points for all the Trim Rings 8 for the Hub Caps. You have 4 Trim Rings each Trim Ring has 2 judging point for originality. So then during judging each area of CDCIF is worth .4 points

CDCIF ............................. Originals

Configuration ....................No Deduction
Date...................................... "
Complete............................... "
Installation ............................ "
Finish .................................... "
..........................................All Available Points

CDCIF ................................Gm Service Replacements

Config.................................20% Deduction
Date...................................20% Deduction
Complete............................No Deduction
Install..................................No Deduction
Finish..................................No Deduction

So the deduction for the replacement cover would be .4 for each of the 2 areas or .8 then times 4 Trim Rings or 3.2 rounded down to 3 point deduct I do not round up.



Hope I made this as clear as mud but that is how the system is suppose to work. We as judges are to follow this guide so that we are consistent from car to car. Plus this allows owners to question the process if they feel to many points were deducted in any area of originality.

Now with some items date can not be determined so there will be 4 areas CCIF 25% each area. There is also Standard deductions for certain areas that list can be found in the Judging Reference Manual.

Hope this helps.


Paul 18046

[Bill L.]

Re: 70 Trim Ring Judging

Thanks Paul.

There is a spring judging event held by the Mason Dixon club in MD.

I may try and have my 70 go through judging just to see where it stands and how it all works.

Just trying to get a rough handle on how this all works. I am reviewing the judging sheets so I may have a lot more questions.


Bill

[Dave S.]

Re: 70 Trim Ring Judging

Bill

Just stay on the originality side for now. For Wheel covers or Hub Caps and Trim Rings there is 16 originality points available. Since you have 4 Hub Caps & 4 Trim Rings the points will be divided 8 points for all the Trim Rings 8 for the Hub Caps. You have 4 Trim Rings each Trim Ring has 2 judging point for originality. So then during judging each area of CDCIF is worth .4 points

CDCIF ............................. Originals

Configuration ....................No Deduction
Date...................................... "
Complete............................... "
Installation ............................ "
Finish .................................... "
..........................................All Available Points

CDCIF ................................Gm Service Replacements

Config.................................20% Deduction
Date...................................20% Deduction
Complete............................No Deduction
Install..................................No Deduction
Finish..................................No Deduction

So the deduction for the replacement cover would be .4 for each of the 2 areas or .8 then times 4 Trim Rings or 3.2 rounded down to 3 point deduct I do not round up.



Hope I made this as clear as mud but that is how the system is suppose to work. We as judges are to follow this guide so that we are consistent from car to car. Plus this allows owners to question the process if they feel to many points were deducted in any area of originality.

Now with some items date can not be determined so there will be 4 areas CCIF 25% each area. There is also Standard deductions for certain areas that list can be found in the Judging Reference Manual.

Hope this helps.


Paul 18046

Paul,
Just for the sake of argument could one say that the configuration deduct would pnly be 10% as the only deviation on the service rings is the location of the clips. The stainless portion may be as original.
Another judgeable thing is to look at the back side of the outer crimp on the originals to be sure the crimp has not neen altered to make the clips line w/ the valve stem hole. (Is that as clear as mud ??)

[Paul O.]

Re: 70 Trim Ring Judging

Paul,
Just for the sake of argument could one say that the configuration deduct would pnly be 10% as the only deviation on the service rings is the location of the clips. The stainless portion may be as original.
Another judgeable thing is to look at the back side of the outer crimp on the originals to be sure the crimp has not neen altered to make the clips line w/ the valve stem hole. (Is that as clear as mud ??)

Dave

I did not want to go there just yet. I was going to build up to that.

Bill what Dave is saying that the clips are a very small item of the entire ring and may not be worth a 20% deduction for configuration as he says 10% maybe the value or less. That is why there are 2 judges they tend to balance each other out 1 maybe hard and the other softer they talk about each item and reach a middle ground.

Now the mud just got thicker.

Paul 18046

[Terry M.]

Re: 70 Trim Ring Judging

Dave

I did not want to go there just yet. I was going to build up to that.

Bill what Dave is saying that the clips are a very small item of the entire ring and may not be worth a 20% deduction for configuration as he says 10% maybe the value or less. That is why there are 2 judges they tend to balance each other out 1 maybe hard and the other softer they talk about each item and reach a middle ground.

Now the mud just got thicker.

Paul 18046

good judge / bad judge

[Mark D.]

Re: 70 Trim Ring Judging

I hope to be a judge one day but, if it requires high level math...I'm out. I'm from NC and there is no way I could figure that out.

[Terry M.]

Re: 70 Trim Ring Judging

I hope to be a judge one day but, if it requires high level math...I'm out. I'm from NC and there is no way I could figure that out.

Just take your shoes off Mark, then you can count higher.

[Paul O.]

Re: 70 Trim Ring Judging

Terry

I know I am the bad judge or in the other June venue as the Sledge Hammer.

Mark

You've got 10 finger and toes that should help you through you know knot plus knot equals knot. We all have to have faith in our Airline Pilots can do at least some basic math. You gotta count the tires on the airplane at least, so you know you have same amount you left with.

Paul 18046

[Dave S.]

Re: 70 Trim Ring Judging

Terry

I know I am the bad judge or in the other June venue as the Sledge Hammer.

Mark

You've got 10 finger and toes that should help you through you know knot plus knot equals knot. We all have to have faith in our Airline Pilots can do at least some basic math. You gotta count the tires on the airplane at least, so you know you have same amount you left with.

Paul 18046

This is pilot/redneck smoke and mirrors. He can count beers, hamburgers, vodka drinks and money but he wants us to think he can't figure 1/2 of configuration. What am I missing here.

[Michael W.]

Re: 70 Trim Ring Judging

Mark's actual problem is being unable to flex his fingers enough to write legibly. Decades of dragging his knuckles on the ground have simply resulted thick layers of callouses- the 'Ah cain't do no fancy double naught figgerin' is just a ruse.

[Terry M.]

Re: 70 Trim Ring Judging

Before this gets to be a "let's bash Mark thread" -- even though that is soooo much fun.

I have watched in wonder as exterior judges insert motel room key cards behind the trim rings. I haven't a clue what they are doing -- I am pretty sure the room key card will not take the trim rings off. Maybe it is all for show. Some of those exterior judges are quite the showmen.
Now who could I be thinking of???

I guess my point is there may be some other features of trim rings we haven't covered here.

I know there is a unique pattern of scratches from the mechanical polishing of original trim rings, but I am not sure where we shoudl stop with all this detail stuff.

[Sal C.]

Re: 70 Trim Ring Judging

OK, so I've scratched up a few motel room keys in my time. All I'm trying to do is to find out if the ring is, indeed, a real 1st design or actually a 2nd design item. What I am looking for is the absense of a reinforcing ridge in the clip retainer. If the key hits an obstruction, the "ridge", it is a second design, which started in 1974 or 75. And yes, the clips are in the correct location on these. Don't miss the next show!