One persons opinion:

**Michael W.** · December 16, 2011, 11:44 AM

Re: One persons opinion:

So what's your solution? A complete deduct for every non-original part that's found?

**Mike L.** · December 16, 2011, 11:52 AM

Re: One persons opinion:

There may never be a solution, but tired of hearing people say it's only one point deduction, and some of these reproduction parts are NOT even close to the origionals.

**Michael W.** · December 16, 2011, 11:55 AM

Re: One persons opinion:

If it's not close to original, and there's 'only a one point deduct' then the part must only be worth a few points to start with. Can you give a specific example where this is not true?

**Kenneth H.** · December 16, 2011, 11:56 AM

Re: One persons opinion:

Mike, I agree with what you're saying, to a point. Whenever I can get an original replacement part for my 'vette, I do. However, that's not always possible.

For example, I need to replace the seat covers in my '70 because they were replaced once before with incorrect material. I'm not going to be able to find a like new (good enough for judging) set of original Comfort Weave seat covers, anywhere. They don't exist. So my only choice is reproduction. The reproductions seat covers being manufactured today look as good as the originals, and meet the judging criteria. There should be no problem getting full judging credit for reproductions in these situations.

Thanks.

**Michael M.** · December 16, 2011, 12:21 PM

Re: One persons opinion:

I understand what you are saying and do agree in part. Restoring one today is a totally different story than 10 to 15 years ago. I try to buy as much NOS parts as I can afford but I have bought so much junk on E-Bay and other places sometimes it is not worth the effort. A nice set (show quality) of bumpers today cost more than I paid for my car. The people with the NOS think it is all made of Gold and price it many times over what I would call obscene. I can`t blame them as there are people that will pay those prices as we all know. 15 years ago a top flight resto was around 30,000. Today I see prices well over 100,000. Whats a small block restored coupe worth? 40 to 50K? Doesn`t make much sense financially. There has to be a limited number of NOS parts left and you can`t afford to restore a car using the parts left at the prices they bring. Main thing is the love of the sport and doing most things yourself does bring its own rewards. I shop every day on different venues for deals but it is getting harder and harder to buy the real nice parts. I could go on but enough. Just my opinion. Mike

**Dennis B.** · December 16, 2011, 01:08 PM

Re: One persons opinion:

Couldn't disagree more Mike. What it would do is ensure only the rich could afford to restore a car that is worthy of being judged. Would you also judge a Dussenburg that had a hand made replacement a "repro" because the part was not available or the guy was "too lazy to look for it"?

Personally I think its great there are fanatics in the world that must keep a car "exactly as it was when it came off the production floor", I am also grateful to those fanatics that introduce new technology to over come outdated or lousy workmanship. I am also grateful to those that just drive the things in any condition as long as they make it down the road.

Perhaps judging should be split into two groups. One, for the rich that can afford to pay a kazillion dollars to restore "exactly with original parts" and then a "second class" for the peons that have to buy repro's?

The judges could then divide the cars "repros" from "Originals" and have the others pay to look upon the privileged?
Maybe even physically brand all peon cars with "Repro" branding irons? Only allow them to approach 100% originals if under the supervision of the "original police"?

Gee this is sounding really good to me too !!!

**Ronald L.** · December 16, 2011, 02:34 PM

Re: One persons opinion:

You have probably been judging 'reproduction' cars for 25 years or more, about the time GM stopped providing service parts.

Make it right - every single fastener!

**Philip A.** · December 16, 2011, 04:06 PM

Re: One persons opinion:

In this hobby, it will take ALL types, extreme fanatics to just auto enthusiast, to keep the cars alive. Without repro parts there will be a lot less cars and a lot less happy people. How original does the car have to be? Tires? Glass? Carpet? Exhaust? Lacquer paint? For some items, you may not find NOS in your lifetime; forgetting potential cost. Should the car sit incomplete and unenjoyed? To each his own. To use myself as an example, in my "65 coupe I replaced repro antenna with restored original and repro KOs with restored originals [very expensive]. I have no intention of replacing repro carpet, glass, and side pipes! I also have no intention of repainting base/clear to lacquer. Guess that puts me in the middle. And this is the easy stuff. What if the motor is gone? Technically it could never be restored unless you get that exact one with the factory stamp! Restamping is reproducing!!!!!

**Jim D.** · December 16, 2011, 04:28 PM

Re: One persons opinion:

There are some very high quality reproduction parts on the market. I would rather use them, and take a deduction, than to use NOS crap (which are actually factory rejects) or completely wrong "service replacement" parts and still take a deduction.

**Edward J.** · December 16, 2011, 04:34 PM

Re: One persons opinion:

Originally posted by Mike Lombardi (9525)

This is only my opinion, I think the Corvette reproduction industory is destroying the way we as judges, judge cars. The NCRS standard of judging a car is as it left the factory, St. Louis or Bowling Green. What good is it when a person restoring a car purchases a reproduction part to install on there car for judging, because they are to lazy or just don't want to spend the time and money to try to locate the original piece. The words have been said many times, well it's ONLY one point deduction, so why should I spend hundreds of dollars on a original. Yes there are people like myself who will spend the time and money to put a original part on there car. Let's stop taking the lazy way out!!!!! NCRS judging chairman, team leaders,should take a long look at these short cuts. What will happen, we will be judging cars with all reproduction parts in years to come. Again this is only one persons opinion.

Mike, To each his own, The NCRS is here in part to help those who want to restore there corvettes to original. and for those who just want to restore there corvettes w/ reproduction parts or what ever they can get there hands on . Is it so bad that one restores it the way they want? a point here and few points there. the end result is theres one more proud owner and another part of history is kept alive. I believe that a car that is earns Top Flite or Duntov. is done fairly. in my opinion. PROUD TO BE A MEMBER!! Ed Johnson

**Joe L.** · December 16, 2011, 04:51 PM

Re: One persons opinion:

Originally posted by Mike Lombardi (9525)

This is only my opinion, I think the Corvette reproduction industory is destroying the way we as judges, judge cars. The NCRS standard of judging a car is as it left the factory, St. Louis or Bowling Green. What good is it when a person restoring a car purchases a reproduction part to install on there car for judging, because they are to lazy or just don't want to spend the time and money to try to locate the original piece. The words have been said many times, well it's ONLY one point deduction, so why should I spend hundreds of dollars on a original. Yes there are people like myself who will spend the time and money to put a original part on there car. Let's stop taking the lazy way out!!!!! NCRS judging chairman, team leaders,should take a long look at these short cuts. What will happen, we will be judging cars with all reproduction parts in years to come. Again this is only one persons opinion.

Mike------

1) Parts wear out or become non-restorable. For example, how many 73-82 Corvettes with original GM urethane bumpers do you expect there will be about 20 years from now?

2) The supply of original parts, either used or NOS, is shrinking by the day;

3) Without at least some reproduction parts it might be impossible to restore some cars today and will definitely be impossible in the future.

4) Are some reproduction parts bad? Of course. However, some are perfect.

**Tom H.** · December 16, 2011, 05:37 PM

Re: One persons opinion:

You think original parts are expensive now ? Take the reproduction parts out of the picture and see what happens to the parts prices. As a whole, the NCRS is a small part of the Corvette world. Reproduction parts are the only way some folks can justify having a Corvette and making it "new" again.

**Paul H.** · December 16, 2011, 05:43 PM

Re: One persons opinion:

Original parts are not always available and when they are they are beyond the means of some people. It's up to the owner of the Corvette to decide for himself what is important to him and what is within his means. If the car is judged it will take the appropriate deduction if it's an obviously incorrect part.

**Ridge K.** · December 16, 2011, 06:12 PM

Re: One persons opinion:

Originally posted by Joe Lucia (12484)

Mike------

1) Parts wear out or become non-restorable. For example, how many 73-82 Corvettes with original GM urethane bumpers do you expect there will be about 20 years from now?

2) The supply of original parts, either used or NOS, is shrinking by the day;

3) Without at least some reproduction parts it might be impossible to restore some cars today and will definitely be impossible in the future.

4) Are some reproduction parts bad? Of course. However, some are perfect.

Agree 100% with Joe. Like Joe, I have had an original and NOS parts collection for around 35 years. Only difference between Joe's and my collection, is the size of the collection. From what I can tell reading Joe's comments over the last five or six years or so, .......my collection is probably sized around 2% ot 5% of Joe's.

The available supply of both original used and NOS parts is shrinking quickly. It has diminished significantly in the past 7 to 10 years. While parts supplies are dwindling, prices continue to skyrocket, ........even in this depressed economy.
As a matter of fact, good original used parts, as well as NOS parts, .......are in the very small minority of items still seen with strong prices on eBay.

One persons opinion:

One persons opinion:

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