Bloomington Gold Changes..

[Greg G.]

Re: Bloomington Gold Changes..

OK Ken, scratch that one. Sure be nice to find a simple effective way to verify what it is and rid the hobby of the "restorers" who cheat the system and capitalize on opportunity when they see it.

[Gene M.]

Re: Bloomington Gold Changes..

I'm sure a clever designer or engineer could devise a way to probe a CMM to measure the deck height relative to the crank center line to determine if it was cut back. A cut of about .025" would be necessary to remove previous stampings. A lot of information would have to be known such as the tolerance in this deck height dimension and the total allowable deviation from parallel and flatness.

I may be incorrect but I would assume the crank center line is a direct datum relationship to the broach machining. Or being that the oil pan rails were broached first it sets the tolerance for all other broaching dimensions including the deck dimension.

[Greg G.]

Re: Bloomington Gold Changes..

Portable CMM might be the answer. OEM decks do vary slightly from front to back and side to side but should run 9.010 to 9.020.

[Michael W.]

Re: Bloomington Gold Changes..

Greg-

Just reading through your responses here, it seems that you're expecting that either the Flight Judging or possibly the Bloomington process is an attempt to certify a car as being authentic or original. Speaking from the Flight Judging point of view, this is certainly not the case.

[John S.]

Re: Bloomington Gold Changes..

If Bloomington Gold continues down this path, they won't be around five years from now. Unless you are the original owner, I can't see how can anyone check the "Original OEM" boxes on the Declaration Document and certify the document.

[Jaime G.]

Re: Bloomington Gold Changes..

Instead of getting all overheated over the new BG criteria, when filling out the form dont certify anything and
say I do not know and let the process run its course. The judging process at BG is sometimes very good and sometimes
not so good but I have found the judges to be honest. Since I am honest, I have no fear to bring a car there to be
judged and expect a fair deal. I have seen too many fakes attempt to get both Flight Awards and BG Certificates and we
need to stop the counterfeiters. Its bad for the hobby.

[Henry S.]

Re: Bloomington Gold Changes..

Twice in this thread there have been references to what happened at BG last year. What happened last year?

Another enquiring mind...................Anyone??

[Chris E.]

Re: Bloomington Gold Changes..

Another enquiring mind...................Anyone??

I don't have the whole detail, but I heard through the rumor mill that a LOT of owners brought cars that "drew fire" at Bloomington Gold last year. Either issues with the pad or the trim tags. Lots of disappointed owners, I'd suspect. Don't really know much more than that.

When I bring my car to Bloomington Gold, there won't be any issues. The Duntov license plate on the front of the car will make sure of that.

[Edward S.]

Re: Bloomington Gold Changes..

I did not go out last year but plenty of my friends went - some with cars and others with
out. They report that in addition to way above average pads and tags being flagged - a great deal of paint jobs took a beating. As you would think, lots of discussions. So have your ducks in a row.

[Dick W.]

Re: Bloomington Gold Changes..

I don't have the whole detail, but I heard through the rumor mill that a LOT of owners brought cars that "drew fire" at Bloomington Gold last year. Either issues with the pad or the trim tags. Lots of disappointed owners, I'd suspect. Don't really know much more than that.

When I bring my car to Bloomington Gold, there won't be any issues. The Duntov license plate on the front of the car will make sure of that.

Several high rollers had issues.

[Gene M.]

Re: Bloomington Gold Changes..

Portable CMM might be the answer. OEM decks do vary slightly from front to back and side to side but should run 9.010 to 9.020.

Hey Greg, If the total deviation of the deck surface is .010", including flatness, angularity, and location (total tolerance zone) relative to the crank center line a portable CMM should be able to pick up 3 or 4 points on the surface and determine the "in tolerance" position of the deck or not.

Now another point or issue did GM use out of tolerance blocks (below low limit) under QC deviations?

This sure would weed out the fakes..............

[Greg G.]

Re: Bloomington Gold Changes..

Gene,
I realize this has been hashed out many times before but I thought I might check in among the wise old owls here to see if anyone believes it might be possible to develop a viable practical non-invasive tool simply to gather more information to help answer the question is it real or not. The market has decidedly put a premium on cars retaining the powerplant they drove off the line with which is calling copiers who are in it for profits and not necessarily because they love the cars. You raise a valid question, did GM repair deck surfaces and send them back through with a below limit block. We would of course need to check that but they would also need different compression height pistons to maintain the compression ratio in the range of tolerance. An owner is putting a lot on the line with current methods.

One thing we know for sure... if it has been restamped the block will measure below 9 inches. Now how do you measure that accurately with reasonably obtainable and affordable equipment and without taking the engine apart?

[Michael W.]

Re: Bloomington Gold Changes..

Gene,
I realize this has been hashed out many times before but I thought I might check in among the wise old owls here to see if anyone believes it might be possible to develop a viable practical non-invasive tool simply to gather more information to help answer the question is it real or not.

Is this really the goal of Flight Judging?

[Dennis O.]

Re: Bloomington Gold Changes..

Here's a question; probably unrelated to all of this, but I don't think it's worth a new thread. I have a '67 L79 I have owned since 1987. The pad looks good to me, but I'm not an expert (I bought the car to relive the memories of the '67 L79 I bought new in 1967). What are the chances that someone did a quality re-stamp before October 1987?

[Greg G.]

Re: Bloomington Gold Changes..

Very unlikely. No incentive to do that back then.