Wheel balancing equipment concern for our "old" wheels

[Bill C.]

Something to watch for...............

I noticed recently while having some wheel/tire assemblies balanced at the tire shop for a 58, ( they have the latest and greatest balancing equipment) that the operator of the machine was using a fixture that located wheel center using the 5 lug holes. It did NOT even touch the ID of the inner hub hole

I stopped him and questioned why he was not using the spindle and tapered fixture I was accustomed to seeing that located center using the hub ID and he said that is what he was taught to do and he did all wheels this way.

I thought for a moment and realized that lots of the aftermarket rims sold today do not use the hub hole at all and actually if buying a say, repo rally from one of many suppliers/distributors that the hub hole diameter is actually much larger and does not locate the rim on center using the hub of the vehicle. They actually locate center only with the lugs. I never did like that but now I see why the tire balancing equipment was designed to accommodate that.

The way I see it, the weight of the car is supported by the hub in the wheel, the lug nuts merely hold the wheel against it. The newer wheels are actually using the lug nuts to do both.

But that is not the way our wheels were designed.


A wheel manufactured 40-50 years ago that was designed to locate center with its hub locating hole better be balanced by finding center with that same hole. Or it may not balance properly.

These old rims have had a lug nut tightened into its tapered hole many, many times, potentially spreading it, or distorting it, so I really did not think using them to center the wheel for balancing was a good idea in this case

I am sure wheel manufacturing equipment is much more precise these days, but to me, I want my wheels solidly located on the hub.

I insisted he find an adapter to do so, and he did.

[Terry M.]

Re: Wheel balancing equipment concern for our "old" wheels

Our wheels are hub centric.

What the guy was doing is called lug centric.

You were correct to request he use hub locating equipment. I expect he recognized his error once you pointed it out to him. Nice call and a good example of why it is wise to watch everything done to your car.

[Bill M.]

Re: Wheel balancing equipment concern for our "old" wheels

It has always bothered me that my OE '59 wheels are not hub-centric. That started in '63? (My '65 is hub-centric.)

Here's the (rough) data:

'58 hub: 2.71 in.
'59 hub: 2.79 in.
'59 wheel: 2.92 in.
C2 wheel: 2.78 in.

I had to lightly file '68 wheel hub holes to fit on my '59 hub.

[Wayne W.]

Re: Wheel balancing equipment concern for our "old" wheels

Yea, but does it really make any difference? The hub and the lugs should also be concentric. If it is not, there is something wrong and I wouldn't want to run the rim anyway. Balancing is not that critical in these applications, and some of us tend to be too anal about this stuff.

[William F.]

Re: Wheel balancing equipment concern for our "old" wheels

Not too anal at all if you DRIVE your car and not want it to bounce and shimmy.
A properly performed balance job can make all the difference and vice versa for an improperly performed one.I've experienced both. Old style spin balance on car with rear trailing arms supported done by knowledgeable operator always seems best to me but can't find that equipment anymore

[Jim L.]

Re: Wheel balancing equipment concern for our "old" wheels

It isn't true that the wheels were supposed to be hub centric. From the earliest days of Corvette through at least '63, the wheels were lug centric. The sole exception being knock-off wheels which are hub centric.

The Allen wrench in this picture of a wheel on my '54 illustrates the point:



The difference in hub hole size and hub diameter was less in '63, but the wheels were still lug centric:





While wheels were lug centric, brake drums and rotors were and are hub centric, however.

Jim

[Terry M.]

Re: Wheel balancing equipment concern for our "old" wheels

I guess I am too used to 1968 and newer Corvettes -- ALL of those wheels ARE hub-centric as are my 1967 Chevelle (and that proved to be an issue when I converted it to 4-wheel disk brakes). I won't bother checking the 1937 Cadillac wheels -- that is more work than I want to do.

[David L.]

Re: Wheel balancing equipment concern for our "old" wheels

It has always bothered me that my OE '59 wheels are not hub-centric. That started in '63? (My '65 is hub-centric.)

Here's the (rough) data:

'58 hub: 2.71 in.
'59 hub: 2.79 in.
'59 wheel: 2.92 in.
C2 wheel: 2.78 in.

I had to lightly file '68 wheel hub holes to fit on my '59 hub.

Bill,

I have studied and collected many Chevrolet & Corvette wheels since 1980. Here is a very brief summary of a few wheels that I have owned.

2.92" hub hole - 15 X 5K dated 10/51, 12/51 (assumed to be GM # 3687980) - from early 52 Chev. Pass.
2.92" hub hole - NOS 15 X 5K dated 5/53, 10/53 (GM # 3687980) for 49-53 Chev. Pass
2.92" hub hole - 15 X 5K dated 8/54 (assumed to be GM # 3714744 or 3714202) - for early 55 Chev. Pass.
????? hub hole - NOS 15 X 5K dated 1/62 (GM # 3714744), for 56 Chev. Pass., Corvette; 57-60 Corvette
2.78" hub hole - 15 X 5 1/2 K dated 1/63, 1/64, 2/64, 5/64,6/64 (GM # 3825686 or GM # 3834127) - for 63 & 64 Corvettes
2.92" hub hole - 15 X 5 1/2 K dated 6/64 (or 9/64?) (GM # 3839814) - repl. for 64 Corvette (listed in Oct. 1964 Chev. Parts catalog, 10/63)
2.92" hub hole - NOS 15 X 5 1/2 K dated 3/65 (GM # 3839814) - repl. for 64 Corvette
2.78" hub hole - NORS 15 X 5 1/2 K dated 1/7/86 (GM # 3838080) - 66 Chev. Police, repl. for 57-64 Corvette & 62-65 Chev. police
2.78" hub hole - 15 X 5 1/2 JK dated 12/64, 3/65,11/65, 6/* (or 9/*?) (GM # 3869156) - 65 & 66 Corvette

* no year stamping

It is my understanding that the 58-62 Corvettes 15 X 5 wheels were either GM # 3714744 wheels (supplied by Chev.) or GM # 3723561 (supplied by Kelsey-Hayes).

Dave

[Bill M.]

Re: Wheel balancing equipment concern for our "old" wheels

[QUOTE=David Liukkonen (3775);614514It is my understanding that the 58-62 Corvettes 15 X 5 wheels were either GM # 3714744 wheels (supplied by Chev.) or GM # 3723561 (supplied by Kelsey-Hayes).

Dave[/QUOTE]

Dave:

I have 3 of the original wheels for my '59 (assembled late Dec. '58). This is a picture of one of them. The hub hole measures 2.92.

Bill

[David L.]

Re: Wheel balancing equipment concern for our "old" wheels

Bill,

I misunderstood what you meant by the following:
'58 hub: 2.71 in.
'59 hub: 2.79 in.

These are hub measurements, not hub hole measurements in the wheel.

Dave

[Scott S.]

Re: Wheel balancing equipment concern for our "old" wheels

If I understand correctly, the 1967 Corvette Rally wheels (15" x 6") were a one-year deal (15" x 5-1/2" for standard wheels 1963-1966, 15" x 7" for 1968).

Does anyone know if the 1967 Rally wheels are hub-centric or lug-centric?

[Domenic T.]

Re: Wheel balancing equipment concern for our "old" wheels

Yea, but does it really make any difference? The hub and the lugs should also be concentric. If it is not, there is something wrong and I wouldn't want to run the rim anyway. Balancing is not that critical in these applications, and some of us tend to be too anal about this stuff.

Wayne,
Just for laughs I'll show how anal I was.

I balanced my discs so when I rotate every thing will be the same.

I did not remove weight but added it to get them in balance.

They were not balanced very good and I was the 1st cut on them since my 67 was new, only .002 on each side.

DOMDSC00347.jpg

[David L.]

Re: Wheel balancing equipment concern for our "old" wheels

If I understand correctly, the 1967 Corvette Rally wheels (15" x 6") were a one-year deal (15" x 5-1/2" for standard wheels 1963-1966, 15" x 7" for 1968).

Does anyone know if the 1967 Rally wheels are hub-centric or lug-centric?

The 1967 rally wheel (15 X 6 JK) stamped "DC" has a hub hole dia. of 2.783" as per Colvin's book 65-69 Chev. by the Numbers.

Dave

[Scott S.]

Re: Wheel balancing equipment concern for our "old" wheels

The 1967 rally wheel (15 X 6 JK) stamped "DC" has a hub hole dia. of 2.783" as per Colvin's book 65-69 Chev. by the Numbers.

Dave

Dave,

Thanks for the info, I just checked Colvin's "Corvette by the Numbers" and I was able to find the same info in that book.

What I don't understand yet is, when I have the wheels balanced, do I want the operator to use a hub-adapter to locate the wheel center based on the hub, or should a '67 Rally wheel be balanced using the five lug-holes to locate the wheel center?

[David L.]

Re: Wheel balancing equipment concern for our "old" wheels

Scott,

I have never really worried about wheel balancing.

Dave