Ethanol

[William F.]

Re: Ethanol

Duke,
Excellent treatise.

[Justin S.]

Re: Ethanol

All------


A few other notes:

When MTBE was used as the oxygenate of choice for most fuels (oil companies liked this one because it was made from oil) we heard all sorts of tales of problems associated with it. I never experienced a single one. In fact, I always thought that MTBE was a great oxygenate.

I've been using ethanol-formulated gasoline here in California for a long time. I'd prefer MTBE but, of course, it's nowhere to be found. So far, I've not experienced a single problem associated with the ethanol blended fuel used in any of my cars.

Fuel system corrosion induced by ethanol? Well, the scavengers used in days-gone-by leaded gasoline (and still used in leaded aviation gasoline) were a lot more corrosive than ethanol blended gasoline. Nobody seemed to complain about them, though.

The only possible problem I see with ethanol blended fuels is that it might cause some slightly accelerated deterioration of older elastomeric compounds used in fuel systems. However, install a current manufacture fuel pump (or, one rebuilt with modern elastomeric components), install new rubber fuel line sections, and a carburetor kit with modern elastomeric components and your fuel system should be pretty much good for as long as you're going to need it. All of these things are normal maintenance items anyway and certainly won't "break the bank".

Joe,
I came across an old advertisement for a company called Ethyl Gasoline Corp. Where they describe their recipe as 'good gasoline +Ethyl fluid=Ethyl gasoline'. Would this represent early days of blended fuels and what's the difference between ethyl and ethanol?

Justin

[Harry L.]

[Joe L.]

Re: Ethanol

Joe,
I came across an old advertisement for a company called Ethyl Gasoline Corp. Where they describe their recipe as 'good gasoline +Ethyl fluid=Ethyl gasoline'. Would this represent early days of blended fuels and what's the difference between ethyl and ethanol?

Justin

Justin------


There's a BIG difference. The Ethyl Corporation manufactured a compound called tetraethyl lead. Tetraethyl lead is an organo-metallic compound that was used for many years to raise the octane of gasoline. Basically, it was an inexpensive way to increase octane and, at the same time, add some lead to gasoline to, theoretically, prevent exhaust valve seat recission. For those things it was good for the engine; for everything else in the engine it was bad. Among other things, the scavengers that had to also be used cause fuel system deterioration, especially of carburetors.

Ethanol is ethyl alcohol. It's not related to the "ethyl" of old in any way. It's added to gasoline to oxygenate it for emissions control purposes as well as partially replace fossil fuel. It also marginally increases gasoline octane.

[Richard G.]

Re: Ethanol

My cars get none ethanol fuel, when it's available. Not afraid to run ethanol fuel if I have to.
However, when they sit over the winter I always be sure the take is clear full on none ethanol fuel.
Being all the way full help keep the water out. An I am careful to never let the fuel set for over a year.
It has worked well for me over the years.
Rick

[Michael J.]

Re: Ethanol

Yes, and as my vintage gas pump shows, it was the additive that people wanted in the day. I remember my Dad telling gas attendants to "fill 'er up with Ethyl"

[William F.]

Re: Ethanol

Mercury Marine, outboard manufacturer put out a warning about ethanol gas breaking down inside of fuel lines, etc. That's a fact not an urban myth about the bad effects of ethanol.

[William F.]

Re: Ethanol

Ethyl= tetraethyl lead additive. Ethanol is ethyl ALCOHOL.

[Justin S.]

Re: Ethanol

Thanks Joe,
I saw the ad in an Indy 500 program from 1932. It was called the 500 Mile Sweepstakes then.

[Elliott P.]

Re: Ethanol

Wow gentlemen (and ladies?), there is an awful lot to be said about ethanol in gas. It only gets worse, particularly in California. E15 is now being used year round in this infamously Progressive Green State. And the consumer can not find legal ethanol-free gasoline within hundreds of miles of the San Francisco bay Area. And the corn-state congress-persons and corn-farmers are currently suing the EPA to add more ethanol to gas. Can you guess why? Check it out at: : https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2019/0...ign=2019-08-15

The worst part of ethanol in our older cars is that it has a short shelf-life before it breaks down due to phase separation. The water that was dissolved in ethanol (and ethanol loves to absorb water on muggy days) is freed and the ethanol becomes more acidic. The fuel quality deteriorates and the fuel becomes much more corrosive. Our typical old cars may sit for extended periods between getting fresh gas in the tank and in the carbs, fuel-pumps and fuel-lines. If you are driving your Corvette continuously and putting 10,000 miles a year on it, then you are having a good time and probably do not need to worry about the ethanol gremlin (at least with E10 or E15).

I do not drive my concourse restored 65 L79 nearly that much; but, I still enjoy driving it. But after having fuel related problems, I started adding an anti-ethanol gas additive, Sta-Bil 360 Performance (made by Gold Eagle), and I only put about ten gallons of gas in at a time, with the additive, to minimize shelf-life issues. This additive does not directly affect octane rating, but it preserves the original octane out of the pump. Another comparable additive is the newer Ethanol Defense (made by Bell Performance). Bell Performance does a lot of research on oil and gasoline. They have published several excellent papers on the subject that you can find at https://www.bellperformance.com/fuel...thanol-defense . Look for Bell report on Ethanol problems Facing Consumers. I have attached a chart comparing various fuel additives (compiled by Bell).

And Remember, Friends do not let Friends drive with Alcohol in their Tank.

[Michael G.]

[Paul B.]

Re: Ethanol

...I used to unload 5 30,000gal railcars of ethanol daily for a couple of years. The corrosion I saw in those railcars was unreal. Since many of the same cars came back to us, I saw brand new railcars age to about 5-7yrs with rust just literally flaking off the insides. Kinda like late 60s-mid 70s Corvettes that were driven on salt treated roads during the wintertime. Had to change many, many rubber manway lid & 4" rubber outlet cap gaskets that shriveled up like a used condom. This was also 95% pure ethanol with 5% gasoline, which is poisoned on purpose so it's not "drinkable". Recently, some brands of gasoline stations near me have a dedicated non-ethanol gas pump which is now all I use in my '68 & '74 Corvettes. Ironically, after about 40,000miles of ethanol gas usage in my '68 over 31yrs, I got around to rebuilding the Q-jet and inside it was gorgeous & spotless!!! I was expecting far worse, but for once it turned out great.

[James G.]

Re: Ethanol

A friends 2x4 WCFB carbs were totaaly destroyed internally by ETHANOL. I will try and find the photo. Dick is 100% correct. It is NOT a politiacal problem.