Next Edition of the 65 Judging Guide

[Jim D.]

Re: Next Edition of the 65 Judging Guide

[QUOTE=Gary Cowans (30373);624859]Jim,
Is this drawing?[QUOTE]

Confusing because there are two Jim's on this thread but yes, that's the drawing that shows the coupler for a tele. column is painted black, like mine. The judging guide is wrong.

[Jim R.]

Re: Next Edition of the 65 Judging Guide

Lets try this

Hi gary check the thread that i answered to started by jim shea #15 post I couldn't figure out how to add it to the thread from you. jim

Also there was a note on the drawing indicating that the gear should be painted "all over" with black paint except the pitman shaft. I assume that the note meant that the flange and coupling asm would have been attached and painted as well.

The attaching pinch bolts to the steering gear input shaft and to the flange on the steering column were both listed as 5686553. The bolt used to attach the flange and coupling asm to the steering gear input shaft was supplied and assembled at Saginaw. The bolt used to attach to the flange and coupling assembly to the steering column was supplied by Chevrolet and assembled at St. Louis (the bolt outline is dotted in the side view of the gear.)

NOTE: Section D-D there is a indentation on the end of the gear input shaft. It is vertical when the gear is exactly on center. The flange and coupling assembly assembles to the input shaft with the pinch bolt saw slot in line with the indentation.
Jim

Last edited by Jim Shea (36737); June 30th, 2011 at 08:57 PM.

[Jim R.]

Re: Next Edition of the 65 Judging Guide

Does anyone else think this part needs to be changed in the new 65 book with having this print showing the box and coupler painted black as a unit. JR

Lets try this



Also there was a note on the drawing indicating that the gear should be painted "all over" with black paint except the pitman shaft. I assume that the note meant that the flange and coupling asm would have been attached and painted as well.

The attaching pinch bolts to the steering gear input shaft and to the flange on the steering column were both listed as 5686553. The bolt used to attach the flange and coupling asm to the steering gear input shaft was supplied and assembled at Saginaw. The bolt used to attach to the flange and coupling assembly to the steering column was supplied by Chevrolet and assembled at St. Louis (the bolt outline is dotted in the side view of the gear.)

NOTE: Section D-D there is a indentation on the end of the gear input shaft. It is vertical when the gear is exactly on center. The flange and coupling assembly assembles to the input shaft with the pinch bolt saw slot in line with the indentation.
Jim

Last edited by Jim Shea (36737); June 30th, 2011 at 08:57 PM.

[Roy S.]

Re: Next Edition of the 65 Judging Guide

Guys, I do not want to burst your bubble here but there are all sorts of documented cases where a print called for a specific finish and the end product showed up on the assembly line different. I'm not saying that is the case here, just that it happened and it happened more than you would think. There is no substitute for documented history, these manuals exist because of data collected not just from prints but from observation of known originals over a 38 plus year time span.

[William C.]

Re: Next Edition of the 65 Judging Guide

Would suggest you fellows send this to Mike Murray as well as the current team leaders, who may or may not monitor this board.

[Patrick H.]

Re: Next Edition of the 65 Judging Guide

Guys, I do not want to burst your bubble here but there are all sorts of documented cases where a print called for a specific finish and the end product showed up on the assembly line different. I'm not saying that is the case here, just that it happened and it happened more than you would think. There is no substitute for documented history, these manuals exist because of data collected not just from prints but from observation of known originals over a 38 plus year time span.

Agreed.

As an example if any of you have seen the blueprint for the RC-15 radiator cap you will note that some details of the drawing does not match what was actually produced.
One restoration catalog near NY City makes their repros by the print and not by the real life examples, so their repro is easily detectable. The owner refuses to change his part to match the real life examples because he asserts that the drawing "has to be" the correct way to do it. That's too bad because it is otherwise an excellent reproduction.

It's no different with the Judging Guides. The prints are nice but we need to back them up with real life examples.

Patrick

[Michael H.]

Re: Next Edition of the 65 Judging Guide

I worked on these C2 cars when they were brand new. Lots of them. I bought a brand new coupe in early 1964. I don't ever remember seeing a steering gear on any cars in that time period that was not coated in black.

In the 70's, I was around Classic Motors and Richard Buxbaums incredible cars. I worked on a lot of them. He probably had more low low mileage untouched cars than anyone in that decade and I don't remember ever seeing one that had an unpainted steering gear. That includes the 3000 mile maroon 396 conv., the green/saddle 1500 mile FI conv., the 7000 mile red/red 435 HP conv bullet hole car and many others. The 11 mile 67 L88 car had a painted steering gear too.

The coating was similar to chassis black that was used on frames of that same era and everyone knows how easily that coating came off when the engine compartment was pressure washed or cleaned with the then popular engine cleaning chemical, Gunk.

I doubt that Saginaw simply forgot to paint every tenth steering gear assembly.

[William C.]

Re: Next Edition of the 65 Judging Guide

This is especially true with parts manufactured outside the GM, prior to MVSS, where a supplier may have provided a print with a quote, Purchasing submitted the quoted print to engineering and subsequent changes were verbally approved without the drawing ever being caught up. Not something that would happen on an MVSS or emissions item, but a vendor-supplied "shelf item" part, very possible. MVSS and emissions caused a lot of "tightening" within engineering and manufacturing, both inside and outside of GM in the auto business.

[Donald M.]

Re: Next Edition of the 65 Judging Guide

Gary, I have a silver/silver 65 that is totally original and untouched. It is #17022. The trim code is 427BA. The seats, door panels, carpets and kick panels are silver. The dash is black, all black, including the dash pads and dash panels.

[Gary C.]

Re: Next Edition of the 65 Judging Guide

Gents I have updated the list below & attached to reflect the issues discussed todate.
I have marked the issues that I think are closed and have enough evidence to forward to the team revising the next edition of the JG.
The other issues need more evidence. Perhaps we should start a thread on each of these issues to gather more evidence?
I will then add it to the list to be presented to the revision team along with the evidence, photos, drawings etc.
Please comment?
Cheers,
Gary
Perth Australia

[Michael H.]

Re: Next Edition of the 65 Judging Guide

Gents I have updated the list below & attached to reflect the issues discussed todate.
I have marked the issues that I think are closed and have enough evidence to forward to the team revising the next edition of the JG.
The other issues need more evidence. Perhaps we should start a thread on each of these issues to gather more evidence?
I will then add it to the list to be presented to the revision team along with the evidence, photos, drawings etc.
Please comment?
Cheers,
Gary
Perth Australia

Gary,

What about the 250 HP valve cover decal?

[Jim D.]

Re: Next Edition of the 65 Judging Guide

#8 -More evidence required?????? How much is needed???????? EVERY Delco book substantiates it as well as many examples of known originals. Be serious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Wayne M.]

Re: Next Edition of the 65 Judging Guide

#8 -More evidence required?????? How much is needed???????? EVERY Delco book substantiates it as well as many examples of known originals. Be serious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Agree --- long thread on this vacuum advance subject (link follows) with picture of what I believe is an original on post #2.

https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthre...1116238+vacuum

[Jim D.]

Re: Next Edition of the 65 Judging Guide

Agree --- long thread on this vacuum advance subject (link follows) with picture of what I believe is an original on post #2.

https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthre...1116238+vacuum

Post #42 shows what I know is the original on my car.

[Gary C.]

Re: Next Edition of the 65 Judging Guide

Gents I haven't forgotton about updating this, I have just been a bit busy at work.
Please add any other issues with 65 JG you have?
Thanks,
Gary