Interesting VIN fraud story

[Jim D.]

Re: Interesting VIN fraud story

I know nothing about this car but I've seen many cars with state issued VIN's and every single one of them had the state issued number as the VIN on the title/reg. Every car guy I know would be aware of a state issued tag.
In this situation, the original tag being removed, why would any state issue a new VIN but use the old VIN on the title/reg.? There is nothing on the car that matches the old one.That's the same as issuing new license plates but using the old plate number on all the documents. Something just doesn't add up and I doubt the owner is as innocent as he's trying to make out.

[Rick A.]

Re: Interesting VIN fraud story

Jim,

I tend to agree with you - current owner is whining because he thought he had a "home run" on a car he planned to FLIP for big $$$$$

[Bob J.]

Re: Interesting VIN fraud story

Jim,

I tend to agree with you - current owner is whining because he thought he had a "home run" on a car he planned to FLIP for big $$$$$

Sounds that way to me too. Bob J

[Roy S.]

[Michael J.]

Re: Interesting VIN fraud story

The local MVD or DMV authorities are getting very active in VIN fraud these days. There was an episode of "Chasing Classic Cars" recently where an auction (maybe RM? Bonhams?) was given a surprise inspection by the Connecticut MVD and VINs were inspected by the agents before the auction was allowed to proceed. And even then, they found many "new" VIN plates on old cars that looked "suspicious" to them and thus forced the auction company to sell all the cars under a provision that if any buyer could not get them registered and titled in their states due to VIN inspection background problems, they could get their money back from the auction company. That is probably going to happen more often these days with more of these high profile cases emerging.

[Rick A.]

Re: Interesting VIN fraud story

Also, according to the link the following was stated by the "whiner":

Ernst, 65, is no neophyte. He has restored and resold six vintage Vettes, selling each at a profit - at least if only money is counted.
"When you think about my time, no. I spent a year and a half to two years on each of them," Ernst said.
Ernst bought the '66 Corvette from Ellis after encountering the battered car at a Riverside collision shop in 2008. "All Corvettes
are kind of significant, but being an older one, the '63 through '67 [models] are considered special. This had a 427 [cubic-inch] engine," he said.

So, he thought he found someone who didn't know what they had - bought a 427 CHEAP! And, was going to "flip it for $$$$$$$".

Again, there is more to this story than what is being reported / has been reported. Link also states there were AT LEAST seven owners in Niagara county alone before Ellis possessed the car and sold to Ernst.

[John C.]

Re: Interesting VIN fraud story

Also, according to the link the following was stated by the "whiner":

Ernst, 65, is no neophyte. He has restored and resold six vintage Vettes, selling each at a profit - at least if only money is counted.
"When you think about my time, no. I spent a year and a half to two years on each of them," Ernst said.
Ernst bought the '66 Corvette from Ellis after encountering the battered car at a Riverside collision shop in 2008. "All Corvettes
are kind of significant, but being an older one, the '63 through '67 [models] are considered special. This had a 427 [cubic-inch] engine," he said.

So, he thought he found someone who didn't know what they had - bought a 427 CHEAP! And, was going to "flip it for $$$$$$$".

Again, there is more to this story than what is being reported / has been reported. Link also states there were AT LEAST seven owners in Nassau county alone before Ellis possessed the car and sold to Ernst.

Wow, so someone buys a car with a fraudulent vin tag and now he is the problem.

The vin tag was changed before he bought the car. It was the person who changed it that knew a car with a real vin tag is worth more then one with a state issued one. They committed the fraud to get more money when they sold it to the next person. Obviously by charging Mr Ellis the district attorney feels there is evidence to support he did this.

Please get real people.

[Rick A.]

Re: Interesting VIN fraud story

and, it COULD have been changed by any of the SEVEN or more owners prior to Ellis - again, if Ernst has the evidential trail that he claims, then titles should show WHEN the actual change of the VIN took place - "normally" I believe the GA-issued VIN needs to stay with all subsequent registrations - so, exactly WHEN did the title get washed to show that VIN disappeared!? If Ellis did it, then he is definitely going to be found guilty.

But, I still stand by my statement Ernst "obviously" thought he had found a sucker who did not know what he had in a 427. So, he did NOT due his due diligence to start with. Everything is AFTER THE FACT.

[John C.]

Re: Interesting VIN fraud story

Rick

Yes, it could have been any of the previous owner, but by charging the one specific previous owner the DA has to be pretty confident he has his man.

I don't see how you think he had found a sucker. He paid 50k for a car that needed 75k in work. 427 or not he is going to have a hard time making any money after restoration unless the car has some type of special significance not mentioned in the article.

John

[Roy S.]

Re: Interesting VIN fraud story

But, I still stand by my statement Ernst "obviously" thought he had found a sucker who did not know what he had in a 427. So, he did NOT due his due diligence to start with. Everything is AFTER THE FACT.

[Loren L.]

Re: Interesting VIN fraud story

I find it interesting that he compared the # to the one on the "transmission", not the much easier to-get-to # on the block - does that indicate anything to anyone vis-a-vie NOM?

[Roy S.]

Re: Interesting VIN fraud story

I find it interesting that he compared the # to the one on the "transmission", not the much easier to-get-to # on the block - does that indicate anything to anyone vis-a-vie NOM?

[Rick A.]

Re: Interesting VIN fraud story

Never said he didn't get screwed - again, he buys and sells Corvettes for PROFIT and he certainly knew what he was getting into IF he did his due diligence which obviously he did NOT

[Roy S.]

Re: Interesting VIN fraud story

Never said he didn't get screwed - again, he buys and sells Corvettes for PROFIT

[Tony S.]

Re: Interesting VIN fraud story

Everyone needs to be careful focusing on what the buyer knew or should have known. There are aspects of both criminal law (felony or misdemeanor) and civil law (buyer may be able to sue the seller for $ damages). As for the seller's potential criminal liability, it doesn't make any difference if the buyer knew or should have known what the Georgia sticker meant because the criminal statute(s) will focus on what the seller did (i.e. installed a fraudulent VIN tag).

What the buyer knew or should have known about the Georgia sticker only comes into play if the buyer decides to file a private lawsuit to recover money damages in a civil suit against the seller.