Judging a c-2 that originally was a 2 top conv.

[Michael G.]

Re: Judging a c-2 that originally was a 2 top conv.

The "Judging Reference Manual" states (referring to PV, on page 40) that "All cars determined by judges to have been equipped with two tops from the factory will have the soft top operated. Hardtops will be removed and replaced even if the vehicle is a hardtop only model. Soft tops will be raised and lowered if the car is determined to have been equipped with a soft top even if a hardtop is present. This does not say that a two top car must have its hardtop present."

i think the last sentence clearly states that it is not required that a two top car be presented with its hard top.

[Paul J.]

Re: Judging a c-2 that originally was a 2 top conv.

Hello;
.
"Don't poke the bear"
.
my .02
Ray

Amen, brother.

Paul

[Terry M.]

Re: Judging a c-2 that originally was a 2 top conv.

The "Judging Reference Manual" states (referring to PV, on page 40) that "All cars determined by judges to have been equipped with two tops from the factory will have the soft top operated. Hardtops will be removed and replaced even if the vehicle is a hardtop only model. Soft tops will be raised and lowered if the car is determined to have been equipped with a soft top even if a hardtop is present. This does not say that a two top car must have its hardtop present."

i think the last sentence clearly states that it is not required that a two top car be presented with its hard top.

Nice catch Michael. Just to be complete there are two more sentences to that paragraph:
It does , however, say that all factory-built two-top cars will have the soft top function and operation checked. This does mean that not only will all manual soft tops be checked and operated, but also that any power top will be checked and expected to perform appropriately.

[Kenneth B.]

Re: Judging a c-2 that originally was a 2 top conv.

Hello;
.
"Don't poke the bear"
.
my .02
Ray

HELL RAY You can poke the bear as long as you know you can run faster than the guy next to you! LOL

[William L.]

Re: Judging a c-2 that originally was a 2 top conv.

The "Judging Reference Manual" states (referring to PV, on page 40) that "All cars determined by judges to have been equipped with two tops from the factory will have the soft top operated. Hardtops will be removed and replaced even if the vehicle is a hardtop only model. Soft tops will be raised and lowered if the car is determined to have been equipped with a soft top even if a hardtop is present. This does not say that a two top car must have its hardtop present."

i think the last sentence clearly states that it is not required that a two top car be presented with its hard top.

Cool I learn something new every day. That makes it a little easer. I don't know why anyone would take both tops to PV?

[Michael G.]

Re: Judging a c-2 that originally was a 2 top conv.

Heck, I haven't put on a C2 hard top since 1971. PV's tough enough, without having to mess with one of those things.... My luck, I'd drop it on the paint...

[William L.]

Re: Judging a c-2 that originally was a 2 top conv.

I don't know when the 8th JRM came out but in the 7th edition manual the line you quoted in not in there and the 7th edition it states "the detectable addition or removal of any option will result in automatic test failure." So the new JRM made getting a PV a little easier for 2 top owners. Cool. Thanks for the update.

[Gene M.]

Re: Judging a c-2 that originally was a 2 top conv.

Guys, also be aware if showing a car that clearly is a two top car and showing it with the hard top the soft top must be present in the stowage area for flight judging. A missing soft top is a deduct. On a two top car only a hard top can be left home for flight judging while showing with soft top. A two top mid year will have mounting on the deck lid for both tops. A hard top only car will not have the lock downs nor show any signs of there ever being there. As the soft top only deck lid will not have the round holes and bezels on both the sides and aft (4 places). A soft top only is the most common original build. Many a hardtop were added. An added hard top is difficult to prove/disprove, but once added needs to be present for a PV. An original build sheet might (?) exempt one at a PV if the hardtop "buttons" were added and hard top not present. But the judging reference manual states "deduction" for added/deleted options. But it is not clear is the deduct for the "buttons" or the lacking hard top for a PV. Nothing is said about the build sheet as verification. Burden of proof is on owner. I have been asked this by chapter members but I can't answer with any certainty. Maybe Roy can clarify this area.

[Terry M.]

Re: Judging a c-2 that originally was a 2 top conv.

I don't know when the 8th JRM came out but in the 7th edition manual the line you quoted in not in there and the 7th edition it states "the detectable addition or removal of any option will result in automatic test failure." So the new JRM made getting a PV a little easier for 2 top owners. Cool. Thanks for the update.

Bill, The 8th Edition JRM came out in 2010.

[Ronald F.]

Re: Judging a c-2 that originally was a 2 top conv.

I'm getting ready to acquire a hardtop for my '67 vert. The tank sheet says it came with one, but the car was restored top to bottom just before I bought it and I would like to make sure it it still set up for the hardtop. I understand there should be 4 holes in the deck lid to accept the hardtop. Could someone please help me find these, perhaps with pics so I don't buy the top and have no where to mount it.

Thanks!!
Ron

[John H.]

Re: Judging a c-2 that originally was a 2 top conv.

I'm getting ready to acquire a hardtop for my '67 vert. The tank sheet says it came with one, but the car was restored top to bottom just before I bought it and I would like to make sure it it still set up for the hardtop. I understand there should be 4 holes in the deck lid to accept the hardtop. Could someone please help me find these, perhaps with pics so I don't buy the top and have no where to mount it.

Thanks!!
Ron

Ron -

There will be two holes with stainless ferrules in them in the top surface of the deck lid, about 1" rearward of the rear edge of the soft top and 15-3/4" either side of the centerline. There will also be a hole with a threaded ferrule in it on both sides of the inboard edge of the deck lid, immediately rearward of the top linkage (with the soft top up).

[Loren L.]

Re: Judging a c-2 that originally was a 2 top conv.

As I understand it, a two top car can be judged WITHOUT PENALTY with the softtop only; however the hardtop mounting holes should be judged, PLUS, in my opinion, the HARDTOP WRENCH should also be judged, which I do not think is properly spelled out in the JG/JM.

[Ronald F.]

Re: Judging a c-2 that originally was a 2 top conv.

John, I don't believe I see these. I'll post a pic with the top up later today to confirm. Thanks for your help!

Ron

[Reba W.]

Re: Judging a c-2 that originally was a 2 top conv.

The requirement for both tops in a PV was added to the last JRM, but I think it was actually in effect before the manual came out. At the time Roy Sinor announced the change in his regular column in The Restorer.

He always does this with any change in judging procedures since JRMs don't get re-issued every year. Make sure you read his messages and note changes in judging procedures.

[Kenneth B.]

Re: Judging a c-2 that originally was a 2 top conv.

Guys, also be aware if showing a car that clearly is a two top car and showing it with the hard top the soft top must be present in the stowage area for flight judging. A missing soft top is a deduct. On a two top car only a hard top can be left home for flight judging while showing with soft top. A two top mid year will have mounting on the deck lid for both tops. A hard top only car will not have the lock downs nor show any signs of there ever being there. As the soft top only deck lid will not have the round holes and bezels on both the sides and aft (4 places). A soft top only is the most common original build. Many a hardtop were added. An added hard top is difficult to prove/disprove, but once added needs to be present for a PV. An original build sheet might (?) exempt one at a PV if the hardtop "buttons" were added and hard top not present. But the judging reference manual states "deduction" for added/deleted options. But it is not clear is the deduct for the "buttons" or the lacking hard top for a PV. Nothing is said about the build sheet as verification. Burden of proof is on owner. I have been asked this by chapter members but I can't answer with any certainty. Maybe Roy can clarify this area.

Hence my original question. You can show a 2 top car with the soft top only but if you show it with the hard top only you get a deduction. I beleave if it has the hard top hardware in the deck lid you need to have a hard top & stowed soft top. NO points for the soft top if present but a deduct if it is missing. No need to take the hard top off.