Paragon Rag Joint Repair Kit

[Timothy B.]

I am thinking about buying one of these Paragon kits to repair the web material on my 1963 rag joint. The rag on my car has wear where the bolts go through (oblong holes) and when everything is tight there is some play because of this.

Has anyone ever used one of these kits and can comment on the rag material and how difficult flatening the rivets can be. TIA, Tim

[Mel H.]

Re: Paragon Rag Joint Repair Kit

I got one from them about a year ago for my '63. Worked great, but I had local shop press the rivets in place. Think you could do it yourself but will take a press or lots of hammer time & solid surface. Kits not that expensive to give it a try. Maybe others have done it themselves and can comment. If I recall right, need to pay attention to the copper connector mounted inside the joint. It needs to be in correct position when riveting together.

[Jim S.]

Re: Paragon Rag Joint Repair Kit

I am not directly knowledgeable on the Paragon flex coupling rebuild kit. However, I would assume that it is pretty generic compared to the rebuild kits available at most automotive stores through the years. I have been concerned for a number of years concerning the hardware in these rebuild kits. I have written many letters indicating that just directly clamping rubber parts is far from accepted engineering practice and can result in a loose steering connection. The OEM Saginaw flex coupling assemblies ALWAYS used shoulder bolt and rivets to place a controlled squeeze on the rubber disc as well as providing a secure metal on metal connection. The following is a document that I prepared (sorry it is in Microsoft Word format) outlining my concerns.

http://jimshea.corvettefaq.com/?p=802

I would be curious as to the type of fasteners (shoulder bolts or not) that were supplied with the Paragon kit.

BTW, the OEM Corvette C2/C3 flex coupling assemblies always had rubber discs with 7 laminations of cotton cloth and neoprene rubber (3/8 inch thick). This resulted in a quite "stiff" coupling assembly and provided fairly good road feel. If the part supplied in the rebuild kit has only 4 laminations (with the same 3/8 inch thickness) then it will be "softer" than original and may actually allow a bit more compliance when steering.

All of the kits that I have reviewed in the past did not provide an electrical path from one quadrant of the flexible coupling assembly to the adjacent quadrant. This could result in the horn not operating since there would be no direct ground path from the steering column to the steering gear to the frame.

Jim

[Timothy B.]

Re: Paragon Rag Joint Repair Kit

Thanks Mel and Jim,

I just purchased a NOS 5691327 rag joint that I hope has a mesh for the horn. I can't see any copper strap for grounding like what's in my old rag joint. I may also try the Paragon part because I have a spare rag joint but I would perfer the GM part even if it's horn grounding is with mesh.

The Paragon part comes with what looks like shoulder bolts and rivets plus a new copper strap for the horn grounding.
There is a Paragon rag joint on ebay now that looks like the fabric has several layers of cloth.

[Mel H.]

Re: Paragon Rag Joint Repair Kit

Checked on my couple (from Paragon).. believe bolts have shoulders, it has rivets, and 6 or 7 rows (couldnt see real well) of laminations.. sounds pretty much correct.

[Jim S.]

Re: Paragon Rag Joint Repair Kit

Could one of you guys post a picture(s) of the Paragon components. It would be most helpful in continuing this discussion.
Jim

[Mike E.]

Re: Paragon Rag Joint Repair Kit

I'm following this thread; my car has N36 Telescopic Column. I know the coupling is different but is the Rag Joint itself the same? I'm probably a good year away from needing so I'm hoping someone comes up with a good solution in the meantime.


Mike

[Jim S.]

Re: Paragon Rag Joint Repair Kit

If you are asking if the rubber disc is the same, the answer is that the telescoping column uses the same 7 ply disc. It was just a plain disc with no screen during the production of the 1965-66 model year. Parts that were manufactured for service at Saginaw (after 1970) would have had the metal screening in the face of the disc. Most likely those parts would have had red-orange latex paint smeared on the disc to help the Saginaw plant quickly identify the different versions of discs.
Yellow Paint - 7 ply disc without screen
Purple Paint - 4 ply disc without screen
Orange (Red) Paint - 7 ply disc with screen
No Paint - 4 ply with screen

[Mike E.]

Re: Paragon Rag Joint Repair Kit

Thanks Jim,
I need to look closer at the part and really understand what's there. I know Gary Ramadei is concerned about what's available as replacement joints, I'm somewhat surprised he hasn't joint this tread yet.

Mike

[Jim S.]

Re: Paragon Rag Joint Repair Kit

Saginaw sub-contracted the flexible coupling service business. For the first several years things were OK. But about a year or two ago, the company the manufactured the laminated discs responded that they could no longer obtain the screen material. So Saginaw basically went out of the flexible coupling business. Also, and even before that time, parts started coming in from offshore.

And I discovered the following part.

People started reporting that although the flex coupling assembly would only assemble one way on the steering gear (because of the machined flat) low and behold, their steering wheel was now upside down.


I'm afraid that it will only get worse.

Jim

[Gary R.]

Re: Paragon Rag Joint Repair Kit

Thanks Jim,
I need to look closer at the part and really understand what's there. I know Gary Ramadei is concerned about what's available as replacement joints, I'm somewhat surprised he hasn't joint this tread yet.

Mike

Hi Mike,
I really don't have anything to say, I have not seen a quality replacement rag yet. I did see only one D-Flat rag (70-82) that a local guy brought in for me to look at when I blueprinted his box, it wasn't too bad but I don't know if they are making the earlier ones. This one came from Corvette America, where they source them from I can't say.

As Jim mentioned the ones I've seen were crude copies, the rag material very pliable, no grounding, and the D flat on the later ones 180* off. I get 3-5 calls a week from guys looking for NOS GM rags and I only have 1 of each except the 65-66 tele rag which I can post pictures of if needed. Some of the kits I bought 5-7 years ago were so bad I threw them out. I never look for rag kits but have found NOS rags on e**y in the past. I don't have an answer. .

[Jim R.]

Re: Paragon Rag Joint Repair Kit

I bought a complete rag joint fron LIC same one paragon and cc sell for about 120.00 compaired it to my original and it is a very nice piece same width on the rag part, the only difference was the pinch bolts had a smaller head size, I used my original pinch bolts, I give it a A+.

[Gary R.]

Re: Paragon Rag Joint Repair Kit

Hi Jim
Do you have a picture of it? I believe in my files there was a 67 box that came in with one of those but I'll have to go back and look for it. If I find it I'll post it, it was a couple of years ago.

[Jim R.]

Re: Paragon Rag Joint Repair Kit

Hi Jim
Do you have a picture of it? I believe in my files there was a 67 box that came in with one of those but I'll have to go back and look for it. If I find it I'll post it, it was a couple of years ago.

Hi Gary here is one.

[Gary R.]

Re: Paragon Rag Joint Repair Kit

OK I went back in my files and found a "vendor" new rag, now I know at one point Corvette Steering was supplying this to "vendors". This one is for a '67 and was a couple of years ago. I matched it up against a NOS service 67-69 rag as well. The material on the "vendor" rag is more flexible then the NOS rag but the car owner loves the rag and box build so at least this one worked good.