What to do with an original 66 frame.

[Paul J.]

Re: What to do with an original 66 frame.

So your saying there's a difference between the two? Replacement frame and reproduction frame appear to be the same thing....mincing of words. Cutting and welding in the original VIN # changes nothing....judged or not.

Have you ever heard of a restamped engine being called a "reproduction" engine? And a "replacement" engine being anything else, but at least not having the proper badging or stampings. This is not mincing words, it's terminology that's accepted and what one would expect from an organization like ours that focuses on details.

One thing that not having the VIN number on a frame does...I'm sure not going to buy the car and those that might are not going to pay top dollar.

[Steve L.]

Re: What to do with an original 66 frame.

Please provide more details on this. I've asked many questions here about the Vette Products frames, talked to them personally, have received some nice pics from JH from his Vette Products plant tour, etc. and have been assured they are right using original GM tooling, at least for C2's. I do have one C3 data point, besides yours which I'd like to hear more about, that the bends didn't look quite right, i.e. more bulges/ripples than originals. Anyway, I'd like any/all input in order to help chose between a Vette Products frame, a used frame (very risky IMHO), and repairing or back-halving my original.

I suspect that most of the frame pieces from all the vendors originat from one source. The few pieces that I have bought for my 73 are close but not exact i.e. #3 diff xmember: original has half moon lances for lining up the top and bottom parts prior to welding the clamshells together at the factory. If my memory serves me correct, this is also true for #4. #5 the very rear piece. I had to modify it to add extra weld nuts and cut out a 3 inch cut-out to match my 73. I suspect that the tooling is for pre 72. #2 has some large numbers stamped into the original.

Fit and function was all good. But it's the almost un-noticeable little details.

As for the frame changes, I don't know at what point a frame is no longer original. I know people who have replaced the entire rear with a doner. Front half has one VIN, rear is another VIN.
If the car is not sold, then it doesn't matter. If it is sold, changes like this should be highlighted. Since this is a frame that holds the entire car, welding changes brings up safety concerns. IS THE WELDING SOUND. The welding I have done is very noticably different from factory since I wanted to make sure that it was sound. I wasn't going to take chances.

[Michael G.]

Re: What to do with an original 66 frame.

One thing I believe we all can agreed on is the subject matter brings a very passionate opinion from us all. Most likely there is no wrong or right answer to frame replacement......donor or reproduction. It's a difficult choice we sometimes are forced to make in keeping our Corvette on the road.

Right on!

[Loren S.]

Re: What to do with an original 66 frame.

Cutting out a VIN from your original rusted out frame, then grafting onto a doner frame from the same year is probably pushing it for originality and boarders on fraud.
Cutting out a VIN from your original rusted out frame, then grafting onto a reproduction frame, I would think is is fraud.
Restamping your original frame because the numbers have been obliterated because of rust would probably be Ok, BUT would lead to a lot of questions since it could be construde as fraud.

What if you did it the other way around - cut out a donor frame and grafted it on the remaining frame section from your original frame that had the VIN on it?

[Bob H.]

Re: What to do with an original 66 frame.

Take a picture, then cut it out and stick it in the glove box to stay with the car!!

[Gary F.]

Re: What to do with an original 66 frame.

My personal situation when I pulled the body off.

[Dennis H.]

Re: What to do with an original 66 frame.

Why not just re-stamp your VIN into tne new re-production frame and grind out the old VIN on the old frame before you haul it off the the scrap yard?

[Steve L.]

Re: What to do with an original 66 frame.

Why not just re-stamp your VIN into tne new re-production frame and grind out the old VIN on the old frame before you haul it off the the scrap yard?

Re-stamping is a tough job. First you have to get the right font, and the right size. Then you have to make some sort of a jig to hold the stamps in the right position, with the right spacing. Most likely the stamps themselves are individual seperate numbers not like the all in one hydraulic stamp the factory had. Then you have to hit the individual stamp with the right force to get a clear impression without double stamping it and make sure the number is vertical and not at some angle and the depth of the stamp is consistant.

It would take days to build a fixture and practice before actually stamping. Finding the right font and size for a stamp set is near impossible if not impossible completely.

It would be better to cut out the old VIN and try to graft it on by welding but this again would be a tough job. It would mean cutting a hole into your reproduction frame.

You would have to be very dedicated to this to spend the time and effort. You would have to have a high value car to go thru this effort and then there is the legality of all this.

[Jack H.]

Re: What to do with an original 66 frame.

My personal situation when I pulled the body off.[ATTACH=CONFIG]47737[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]47738[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]47739[/ATTACH]

Holy holes Batman!!!! YIKES, that is scary!!!

Was the car ever driven like that??? Did the doors even open/close???

Very cool picture, thanks for sharing. Wow, I don't feel bad about my frame at all now, thanks again.

[Gary F.]

Re: What to do with an original 66 frame.

Holy holes Batman!!!! YIKES, that is scary!!!

Was the car ever driven like that??? Did the doors even open/close???

Very cool picture, thanks for sharing. Wow, I don't feel bad about my frame at all now, thanks again.

Jack....Car hasn't been driven since 1980 because of the frame. When I pulled the body off, what was left of the shims were stuck to the underside of the floorpan. There was so much rust, the numbers were obliterated. It took about 3 seconds for me to want a replacement frame, for my safety, and that of the passenger. I used a forklift to stand the frame up, and you wouldn't believe haw much scale came out of the frame rails. The body dropped right on, and shimmed properly to the new frame. I changed all 4 hinge pins, and hung the doors. The doors fit with ease, and they open & close like new. I couldn't be happier. Like anything else, results may vary depending on any given situation.

[Gene M.]

Re: What to do with an original 66 frame.

Ryan,
To answer your question without any opinion one way or the other is as follows. In most states any transfer or altering of VIN or VIN deritive from original is NOT a legal action. One can call it restoration but in legal terms it is deception and fraud. You can read for yourself as many states have this information on line.

[Paul J.]

Re: What to do with an original 66 frame.

Ryan,
To answer your question without any opinion one way or the other is as follows. In most states any transfer or altering of VIN or VIN deritive from original is NOT a legal action. One can call it restoration but in legal terms it is deception and fraud. You can read for yourself as many states have this information on line.

Sounds like you are expressing a one way opinion. We're not going to get into this again, are we?

First of all, we're talking about parts, and in that respect you are incorrect. Yes, some states do prohibit changing numbers on parts but MOST do not.

The intent of the law is to prevent deception and fraud, but in order to prove the case (i.e. become an illegal act) there must be deception and fraud. These laws have several inconsistencies and maybe that's why there are so many opinions.

Do what you think is right, but don't tell others that what they're doing is illegal unless you can prove it with details of listed convictions.

I don't think any of us knows what all of these laws mean. I have even asked a District Attorney in my State about this. He took my scenerios of putting numbers on parts (and the car) corresponding to a car owned by a collector and not immediately for sale. His response was that the first part of the laws in my State would say that this is illegal, but the second part of the law allowed it. He told me that this law was confusing and that he would not use it to prove any fraud or theft cases, as there are better laws for these.

Let's just let this thing go.

[Gene M.]

Re: What to do with an original 66 frame.

Paul,
Not an opinion just an observation of state published text on the topic. A VIN identification number on the part, represents the serial number of the complete vehicle. If it was just a piece part number then no issue.
In our state if one wants to salvage the frame for scrap as a complete and the number is discovered missing they will refuse the frame. But if you bring it to them all cut up in small pieces they accept it no problem. Ryan was just asking what to do with the frame. He stated he was going to remove the VIN. That limits methods of "getting rid" of the carcass in our state as scrap metal. By the way you get more per pound if cut up in 2 foot or smaller pieces.

I was just sharing the state spelled out text on the subject. Seems you got different answers in you community on the numbers legality. Unless you have a legal background understanding of said laws is questionable at best. But layman reading of state regulations in my understanding say leave the identification numbers alone.

[Ronald L.]

Re: What to do with an original 66 frame.

And all those restamped engine pad stampers are headed to the pen.

[Gary F.]

Re: What to do with an original 66 frame.

I've never seen a manufacturers vin tag attached to a 66 frame. What did I miss?????