'66 Milano Maroon versus '67 Marlboro Maroon

[Mike E.]

Re: '66 Milano Maroon versus '67 Marlboro Maroon

Guys,

You really can't judge the shade of a color from a digital photograph without having reference calibration. If you're viewing on a typical LCD monitor moving a few degrees in different directions can radically shift the color & intensity.

Mike

[Gary J.]

Re: '66 Milano Maroon versus '67 Marlboro Maroon

Contact "The Paint Man" John Ballard, he is a moderator on this forum. Spray him some test strips and be sure to write down products used, tempatures, and pressure.

[George W.]

Re: '66 Milano Maroon versus '67 Marlboro Maroon

As stated, the photographs do not depict the actual colors, but rather, they show how much "brighter", "lighter", "redder", the '67 Marlboro Maroon is compared to the '65/'66 Milano Maroon.Thanks to all for input, info, references.G

[Scott M.]

Re: '66 Milano Maroon versus '67 Marlboro Maroon

Hi Gary, I painted my '67 using Glasurit BC/CC in MM and the color changes drastically with the amount of sunshine. It will go from a dull maroon in the garage, maroon on a cloudy day to a brilliant reddish color in the sun.

[Dick W.]

Re: '66 Milano Maroon versus '67 Marlboro Maroon

I painted my '67 using Glasurit BC/CC in MM and the color changes drastically with the amount of sunshine. It will go from a dull maroon in the garage, maroon on a cloudy day to a brilliant reddish color in the sun.

That is the problem with most modern paints. The original paint did not do that.

[Michael H.]

Re: '66 Milano Maroon versus '67 Marlboro Maroon

That is the problem with most modern paints. The original paint did not do that.

Dick,

That's exactly right. One of the issues is the amount of binder/clear that is added to all metallic formulas for service paint Original paint didn't have near that much binder in the mix,

With service paint, the color of the primer or sealer will make a drastic difference in the color of the paint in different lighting. The color may look somewhat correct in shade but in the sun, it becomes much brighter/lighter.

Also, light will have a greater effect on the reflectivity (not a real word) of the metallic particles within the paint. That also lightens the color in the sun.

A dark color sealer coat will reduce this effect somewhat.

You can also modify the mixing formula to cut the amount of binder in half. That will help stabilize the drastic color change in different lighting conditions.

[Wayne G.]

Re: '66 Milano Maroon versus '67 Marlboro Maroon

George,
If you are going to flight judge your car with Milano Maroon paint be prepared for paint deductions as it is nearly impossible to have the exterior judge accept the shade of the Maroon paint available today. I matched mine from an original painted area behind a door panel that I thought was spot on. The paint was judged to have too much gloss, which it does, but the shade is very close to the original, enough so that it looks very correct. Deduct the gloss yes, but not to extent of total paint deduction do to not having the "metallic content" correct. The car has to be very correct after that deduction to land a top flight.
I would think if you cannot buy the original formula Milano Maroon paint you shouldn't get the total deduction for too much, or not enough metallic in the paint. It falls into a different arena than a red, white or black car because of the high metallic paint content.

[George W.]

Re: '66 Milano Maroon versus '67 Marlboro Maroon

Great information and thanks to all who have responded.
G.

[Terry M.]

Re: '66 Milano Maroon versus '67 Marlboro Maroon

George,
If you are going to flight judge your car with Milano Maroon paint be prepared for paint deductions as it is nearly impossible to have the exterior judge accept the shade of the Maroon paint available today. I matched mine from an original painted area behind a door panel that I thought was spot on. The paint was judged to have too much gloss, which it does, but the shade is very close to the original, enough so that it looks very correct. Deduct the gloss yes, but not to extent of total paint deduction do to not having the "metallic content" correct. The car has to be very correct after that deduction to land a top flight.
I would think if you cannot buy the original formula Milano Maroon paint you shouldn't get the total deduction for too much, or not enough metallic in the paint. It falls into a different arena than a red, white or black car because of the high metallic paint content.

Wayne,
If we do not make a deduction, or reduce the amount of the deduction, because a paint color or a part is not available:
1) We, or someone among us, would have to keep up with the aftermarket or reproduction parts availability and notify ALL the judges when the parts or paint availability changes.
2) Where does our standard go if we begin to let it (our standard) slide because of the non-availability of paint or parts?

BTW: Your own experience, if I am reading what you said correctly, indicates you got the shade close enough that there was no deduction for color. The deduction you received was for too much gloss. That can be mitigated by using flattener in the paint.

It is not almost impossible to get a maroon (any maroon) to match the original paint, especially if one has some of the original paint left in a sheltered area or has access to a well cared for original paint car. One also needs to find a painter who is willing to take the time and effort to get the color correct -- and that can take dozens of spray out samples. If one expects to go to the paint store and buy a couple of gallons of the correct color and shade right off the bat, one is living in a fantasy world.

[Bill W.]

Re: '66 Milano Maroon versus '67 Marlboro Maroon

Wayne . I agree with Terry . The problem is not the color it is the owner ,painter and choice of paint type . #1 original lacquer did not and does not change color between shade and sun . #2 Original lacquer metallic is so fine if you can see it its wrong . #3 Base coat clear coat has clear . Clear magnifies what is under it and WILL distort side tones . Try this test park your car in the sun walk straight back about 40 feet from the door turn and look at the color does the car look the same front to back ? Walk left about 30 feet and look again did the paint get darker or lighter ? now walk 30 feet to the rear and look ? If the car changed color lighter or darker you have clear on it . The more clear the more it will change . #4 Base /clear gets about 2 or three coats of color over a solid color sealer and about 2 or three coats of clear . Your still seeing through it . Next time your on the road look at a new metallic color Camaro from the side in the sun 2 colors ! the quarter panel does not match the doors , put it in the shade it is perfect . Changing color on side tones is called "flop" changing color in different lighting is called "metamerism" . #5 If you matched your paint to color under the door trim panel you matched it to overspray . # 6 and last there are judges that can tell what type of paint you have . You were lucky they only deducted for it being to shinny .

[Wayne G.]

Re: '66 Milano Maroon versus '67 Marlboro Maroon

No, Bill I'm not that lucky. First time out for flight judging N/W regional 1998 the color was correct according to the judges, deductions for too much gloss which I agree on. Judged again in 2010, N/W Regional total paint deductions because of BC/CC. The mistake on the type of paint is mine, to do it over I would use lacquer. Even though my Milano Maroon is not like the description of your talking points, its not going to judge well no matter what. If you are going to flight judge in todays NCRS arena you better paint with lacquer or you will receive zero paint points unless you're good at disguising your paint type or knocking down the gloss in the jams etc. My point to George and anyone else who want to achieve high points in Top Flight and move on to Duntov you better find the right paint formula and paint it with lacquer. Case in point my car scored 98.5 in 1998, 96.2 2010. Same car no changes no extra miles from '98 to 2010. Judges today are better educated on paint than ever before.

[Bill W.]

Re: '66 Milano Maroon versus '67 Marlboro Maroon

Wayne I just finished the body work on my Maroon 65 . I bought 3 gallons of Dupont lacquer from my paint supplier a while back . I plan on getting it judged . I hope the paint comes out good ,the painter is me .

[Wayne G.]

Re: '66 Milano Maroon versus '67 Marlboro Maroon

Bill,I heard you're one of the best. I'm sure it will be flawless.Good Luck, I hope I can take a look at it someday.

Wayne